Pistons for 1600S

[Alexis Collaud]

I'm in the process to rebuild a 1600S 616/12 for my BT6 with the intention to install a Big Bore kit
After a discussion with an another amateur (who has had already several 356 and rebuilt some of them), he told me that the 1600S engine case and crankshaft will be too light to get the BigBore kit, and then can break quite soon. So he strongly recommend to keep the original P&C

What is your feeling or recommendation knowing that I've already ordered a AA performance Kit 008 11 86PE ? Should I install it ?
In addition if I keep the original P&C I need to change 1 piston. Can you explain me the marks (82V9+ W0022++)

IMG_2708.jpg (218.26 KiB) Viewed 1521 times

Thank you

[Mike Wilson]

What size big bore kit are you planning on installing? If 1720, the case, heads and crankshaft will be fine. My 1883 cc engine has a stock C crank with no problems. As far as the AA's, there is a lot of discussion about their quality. I went with JE's and Shastas are good as well. The Mahle is the factory piston and probably stock size but others can confirm that based on the numbers.

I am sure there is a wealth of info on our Talk List about big bore kits, engine rebuilding, etc. that you can familiarize yourself with.

Mike

[Alexis Collaud]

it's a 1720cc
I beleive that the C case is reinforced compare to a 1600S case

[Martin Benade]

I believe you are correct but I think any large oil pump engine such as yours is fine for what you want to do. It was only a small improvement that they did.

[C J Murray]

Your engine will handle the 1720 kit, no problem.

[Ron LaDow]

[...]
After a discussion with an another amateur (who has had already several 356 and rebuilt some of them), he told me that the 1600S engine case and crankshaft will be too light to get the BigBore kit, and then can break quite soon. So he strongly recommend to keep the original P&C
[...]
Thank you

RPM (reciprocating weight on the crank) is what uses up engines.
A 10% increase in displacement will have zero effect on engine life, even with the cast AA pistons, assuming proper care in getting good head/cylinder seals.
Using lighter forged pistons would actually lower the principle loads compared to the heavy Mahle cast pistons.

[Alexis Collaud]

Thank you all, not easy to choose the right option. Still no indication on the Mahle marks ?

I went for the Biral Cylinder hoping to get a better cooling, any review on this ?

[mario musto]

Aren't the original Mahle pistons with the Biral barrels forged? Don't know about later Mahle pistons, maybe some were cast.

[Mike Wilson]

I tried searching for the Mahle numbers but only found numbers for the new pistons. I was hoping to verify the "82" was the diameter but could not verify that. The W022 I thought might be the combustion chamber angle (vs. 30) but again, no confirmation. Maybe one of our engine gurus knows the answer.

Mike

[Alexis Collaud]

Gurus are still in week-end

Anyway I will install the AA perf 86mm / 1720 cc with Biral Cylinder on my 1600S
I have the Zenith 32 and the Crank is the original one, with 0.25 resized in the bearing

I need to replace also my CamShaft. I'm sending it to a local specialist to check if they can repair and control it, I don't have yet the result
What Camshaft would you recommend in alternative if they can't repair it ? I'm looking to have a reliable motor especially in low RPM

What I can find in Europe are :
- Schleicher Camshaft RO200.5
- AA performance with several options :
- Web Cam 356/912, #1187 .393/.341L x 249/249D W/1.3 Rockers
- Web Cam 356/912, #86 .423/.358L x 273/273D W/1.3 Rockers
- Web Cam 356/912, #86-5 .420/.358L x 281/281D W/1.3 Rockers
- Web Cam 356/912, #622 .435/.368L x 296/296D W/1.3 Rockers
- Web Cam 356/912, #86a .435/.369L x 290/290D, Solid Lifters, Performance Street Cam
- Web Cam 356/912, #86b .500/425L x 290/290D W/1.3 Rockers
- some others but caracteristics are not clear

My preference would be to keep the original one, but may be you have other option that will save my engine but at the same time ensure a minimum performance ?

I refer also to the table http://www.willhoitautorestoration.com/CamSpecs.php

[DonCichocki]

Web Cam #1187 is very close to the stock "C" cam. I'm running it in my '65C 1720 and love it. Pulls strong from 1800 rpm on up. I vary rarely go over 5000 rpm. A wonderful cam for realistic everyday driving.

[David Jones]

My personal favourite camshaft is the sc wide lobe cam and I believe the first one you listed The RO200.5 is it.

[Alexis Collaud]

I've read in detail the very insteresting post on AA performance kits : viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40322
I will check and especially Wrist wall thickness for the kit I'm about to received (1720cc AA perf with Biral Cylinders) hoping a part this "weakness" the kit is OK

In paralell I found the NeuTek Camshaft ZH-1 which seems to correspond to my need (Zenith, 356B 1600S case, crank B ...) :

"
This camshaft is a new chilled-iron casting with lobes ground to specs to provide improved street performance for engines with Zenith Carburetors. This cam is recommended for most normal, Super, and 356C rebuilds
Duration:
248 degrees on exhaust
252 degrees on intake
Lift:
.337" on exhaust
.338" on intake
Lobe separation: 106.4 degrees
"

Do you have some experience with the camshaft ? and what do you think of the combinaison with the AA 1720cc kit ?
thank you

[Alexis Collaud]

the AA performance bogbore kit has been received (008 11 86 PE)
the AA wrist pin are the "new one" = 4mm wall thickness and the interior girdle

IMG-4677.jpg (240.72 KiB) Viewed 1176 times

IMG-4680.jpg (210.89 KiB) Viewed 1176 times

IMG-4681.jpg (201.87 KiB) Viewed 1176 times

IMG-4684.jpg (188.95 KiB) Viewed 1176 times

IMG-4686.jpg (223.91 KiB) Viewed 1176 times

IMG-4687.jpg (113.9 KiB) Viewed 1176 times

[Richard Holler]

not that it really matters but some of the later model 1963-64 B T6 already have some of the supposed reinforced pre-C blocks. engine # begins with Zero (0).followed by 7XXXXXXX for the S