Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

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Scott Schafer
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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#16 Post by Scott Schafer » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:52 pm

Thanks for input guy.... I just accidentally posted this in another thread.. but it is what I mean to post here.

Have been trying to find and existing case we can use to do this with and are having have a few problems finding something close to the 19L size, but still have some options. Also found we have to open some new tooling to get the 6v BMS since we can't just redo our 12v BMS which I had hoped for.

Either way we are still getting some details and will probably do some initial units without BMS for checking fitment, functioning and installation methods since this will still allow for testing for operation and such within the Car. I'll be shooting out some Case measurements and maybe those in the know can tell me if they would seem to fit.

Thanks for all the input so far guys...
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Scott Schafer
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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#17 Post by Scott Schafer » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:50 pm

Michael Branning wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:33 pm
Scott, I’m very pleased to see your inquiry. I recently inquired with your company about a 6V battery for our C coupe. Would the 6V version have the “reserve” or “internal jump start” feature? That’s a great innovation. PS - big Lithium proponent here. I converted my 2018 Polaris EV with a Voltronix kit...it’s been outstanding.
Hey Michael... I'm asking the Engineers about that now... meaning the built-in Wireless Jump Starting (we call it our RE-START feature) our 12v units have. Initially they told me they have to figure some things out and what Current they need to get the battery to put out and if that will indeed start a 6v system in a lower state of charge. So we are still looking into that. But at minimum it will have a full BMS which would prevent damage to the battery and keep it as having a very long life. But I want us to be able to do the RE-START for sure. But don't know yet.

I am also looking to find a good Case because if we find a good Case size then we can also make it available in 6v or 12v for those who might have a 12v concerted system. We do have options for 12v models already.. One in particular is called an ATX30 which is quite compact in comparison to a 19L

ATX30 has measurements of 6.53 x 4.96 x 6.8 in (mm: 166x126x173).

And then we have a Group 78 which is a compact 12v with the RE-START that is

9" x 6- 7/8" x 7-7/8" in

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Gabe Renga
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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#18 Post by Gabe Renga » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:04 pm

+1 for the stand alone jump starter
Gabe
2018 Targa GTS
2006 997 S
2010 Cayenne GTS
1964 C Cab

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Scott Schafer
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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#19 Post by Scott Schafer » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:19 pm

Hi all....

I was looking at our Group 75 Case format....

Can anyone confirm if this size would fit in the 356s? I understand different years of the 356 can have a width of the mounting area that varies by roughly 3/8" inches. Below are the measurements of our Group 75 Case format.

9-1/8" LONG (left to right)

7" DEEP (front to back)

8" TALL (top of terminals to bottom)

Positive is on the LEFT hand side if terminals are facing toward you. We can change which side Positive is on I think. Just want to see if this would fit in the designated area. from measurements I have seen posted it appear yes.

Image
Last edited by Scott Schafer on Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Mike Wilson
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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#20 Post by Mike Wilson » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:20 pm

My current battery set up is as Doug has posted. I have the 6V Optima battery with the pictured cloaking device. However, I have also modified the pastic battery cover to fit over it. That entailed cutting a couple of the edges as the cloaking device is larger than a "normal" battery. Because it is longer, the L clamp also had to be longer to provide a secure fit.

It has been my experience that the current 19L is not as long nor high as an original so the battery L clamp does not provide a secure fit. I recently remedied this on a friend's '62 coupe by adding a 3/4" block of plywood under the battery and a 1/2" 2x2 on the bulkhead side.

One thing that I would watch out for is that the battery clamp in the box has been properly positioned. Since the battery box is a frequent area that needs replacement, the battery clamp is also replaced.

Mike
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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#21 Post by Mike Wilson » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:27 pm

The measurements I have for the current L19 are: 8-1/4 L x 6-5/8 W x 7-3/8 H. I can check my set up both with the cloaking device and without it. The length might be problematic for the L bracket and the length and width may preclude using the plastic cover.

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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#22 Post by Mike Wilson » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:52 pm

Cloaking device: 10-1/8" L x 6-3/4" W x 8" H.

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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#23 Post by Scott Schafer » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:22 pm

Mike Wilson wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:27 pm
The measurements I have for the current L19 are: 8-1/4 L x 6-5/8 W x 7-3/8 H. I can check my set up both with the cloaking device and without it. The length might be problematic for the L bracket and the length and width may preclude using the plastic cover.

Mike
I do have the measurements for the L19.... and I now ours if diffent, but it still might fit in that location. That is my first concern since I can make something clean to hold it in place. But can you see with a measuring tape if the measurements for my Group 75 battery will actually fit (measurements are below). I am aware that it will not be exact. I am aware it will be a little taller and maybe a little deeper. But I am most concerned with if it will go into the nitch where the Original Battery went. and also it the height would touch any metal.

I'm am also aware the depth may be longer than than what the 19l is but it appears it s only a 3/8" differrence.... so it might work.

My objective is to only verify if it will fit in that stock locations in general.

My battery size is

9-1/8" LONG (left to right) does that fit into the niche for the battery on the 356s with the battery in the Center niche? And does that fit for the 356 with the battery mount on passenger side?

7" DEEP (front to back) Does this fit for depth... on the Center mounted batteries it does not appear to matter... but on the ones with the L Braket I want to make sure the foot print fits in that area...

8" TALL (top of terminals to bottom) It appear there is room for 8" tall but correct me if I"m wrong.

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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#24 Post by Mike Wilson » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:14 pm

Scott: I'll do some measurements tomorrow. Even though the battery bracket in my car was replaced, I'm confident it is in the correct location.

Mike
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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#25 Post by Scott Schafer » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:36 am

Mike Wilson wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:14 pm
Scott: I'll do some measurements tomorrow. Even though the battery bracket in my car was replaced, I'm confident it is in the correct location.

Mike
Thanks Mike, much appreciated.

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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#26 Post by Mike Wilson » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:30 pm

Based on my measurements, height o.k., width o.k. The length may need some modification of the L bracket as the battery will be at the far right of the battery bracket itself.

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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#27 Post by John Brooks » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:44 pm

I met Scott at rennsport last year. I spent 30 minutes taking batteries with him. He has a good light weight high power 911 battery. If he get the sizing and photos from us, I am sure he will make a drop in our tubs, that is far superior to anything available today. The logic and monitoring control board is well thought out, and the ability to disconnect is a great idea. A Lithium Ion or Lithium Iron battery for a 356 is a great idea. Brad if you have the original DIN spec, he could basically copy that.
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James Davies
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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#28 Post by James Davies » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:00 pm

Bosch Classic has reproduced the old DIN-spec batteries that were original to our car, in the correct sizes based on their power. This should give you a handle on the correct size, shape and details for these.

http://www.bosch-classic.com/en/interne ... ser_1.html

(L x W x H)
84 Ah: 224 x 173 x 216 mm
77 Ah: 215 x 169 x 185 mm

I suspect these heights include the posts and the caps?

It is important to get all these sizes correct, as the battery covers on 356 and 356A cars depend on resting on the battery case in order to secure it. Perhaps later cars as well?

Moll also makes a battery that is the correct shape/size for our old cars.

https://moll-batterie-shop.de/MOLL-Kami ... 39-6V-84Ah

84 Ah: 230 x 177 x 220 mm

https://moll-batterie-shop.de/MOLL-Kami ... 36-6V-77Ah

77 Ah: 216 x 170 x 191 mm

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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#29 Post by James Davies » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:03 pm

Not sure this matters, but the generators on our cars range from 130 W to 200 W depending on year of production. Not sure if this affects how one regulates the recharging or topping-up of the battery. But it might be something to keep in mind.

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Re: Antigravity assitance needed developing 6v Lithium Battery

#30 Post by James Davies » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:14 pm

Finally, I think you would get a lot more people to buy your battery if you made it look "period", i.e. exactly like the old 3-cell lead sulfuric acid batteries as Moll and Bosch have. Here's pages from the 1954 Porsche Service manual showing these. You can see that all brands used the exact same type DIN-spec case, but had different logos on the front.
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