Strange Connection 84908
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:15 am
Strange Connection
I have seen some strange things happen with cars over the years but none stranger than the story that you’re about to hear. Settle back with an adult beverage and listen to this tale.
Because I’ve been playing with these old Tubs since college, I have a lot of connections in the restoration area and have used many craftsmen over the years. I have a guy that punches out perfect louvers in engine covers. I know another that can make (from scratch) a 356 Carrera 2 oil tank. I work with shops that can install floors and battery boxes in 50 year old cars and make them look correct and original. Because of those resources I have folks that call me looking for someone to work on their rides that they can have confidence in. I don’t have any problem making connections for people, keeps good shops in business and keeps old cars on the road. It’s what I call my hobby.
One such call came from a well-known shop back in 2011 that wanted some metal work done on a customer’s car before they painted it. They could have done it in house but were backed up and didn’t want to delay the restoration. The owner had driven the Speedster for 52 years having bought it in California for the princely sum of $850. He was told that the car had been in an accident and that the front of the car had been replaced, hence the low selling price. Back in those days nobody cared.
I sent the shop to a master metal worker in Bridgewater who had done a few Tubs for me and really knew these cars well. After a couple of weeks I got a call from him asking if I could stop by the shop because he had a few questions and some concerns about the earlier repairs. The front had been clipped with the nose from another Speedster. It had been braised onto the car which is how it was done before TIG and MIG welding was invented. Remember, this was back in the early ‘60’s and the cars weren’t worth much. The VIN number didn’t match since the nose is where the Factory stamped the chassis number and that was from another car. The VIN plate attached by the fuel tank said 83401 and the number stamped in the nose said 84908.Photo attached below.
I went home and checked my Speedster book to discover that the replaced nose was from a Carrera Speedster, a car that is worth about three times the normal engine pushrod Speedster it was attached to. It was easy to tell because the book gave 84908 an engine number that was for a four cam engine. Back in the day they held no greater value than a car with a pushrod engine, if anything they were worth less because few mechanics could keep a four cam engine running smoothly. Someone had sacrificed a Carrera Speedster, one of 151 built, to repair a pushrod car which numbered over 4200. I would assume that 84908 was either hit hard in the rear or suffered an engine fire leaving only the portion forward of the windshield posts usable. After a few phone calls, the instructions from the owner, through the original shop, were to leave it alone, he had bought the car as 83401, it was registered as 83401 all these years and considered it to just be part of the story of the car. The metal work continued.
Repairs were done, paint and assembly completed and the owner joined the local club and showed the car with great success. Red Speedsters are always a big hit and 83401 won the first time out at a TYP356NE show last year. The VIN number situation lay dormant under the front trunk mat. Just last month he took another first place in the 356 class at the Patrick Dempsey Porsche Show in Maine.
Last year the classic car world was shaken by news of lawsuits filed against and by Jerry Seinfeld over a Carrera Speedster that he had sold to an investment group in England, Fica Frio Limited. They claimed the car was not “authentic”. Jerry in turn sued the company he bought the car from, European Collectibles, since they had sold the car to him and had completed the restoration after their purchase from a shop in Florida when the owner had passed away.
In car circles the real question that everyone wanted to know was what made the car “fake”. Many of us had seen the car up close, including myself, in Scottsdale a few years ago. The car had won numerous awards and had been inspected by world experts for years with never a word of concern. The panels all fit perfectly, the engine was correct, alloy panels were present and the color, Auratium Green was reported to be the only example done in that color.
The media reported that the car was sold at a Gooding & Co auction in 2016. As Fica Frio Limited prepared to resell the car in 2017 an inspection was done and it was determined that the car was not as represented. When contacted, Jerry Seinfeld was reported to have said that he would take the car back and refund their money. However, the money was never returned and so in the fall of 2018 the lawsuit was filed in a New York court. In the belief that he could pass the car back to European Collectibles, Seinfeld’s lawyers then filed their suit against the original seller in California. Neither lawsuit described in detail what it was about the car that made it fake or counterfeit. That left the classic car community buzzing about what the problem could be. I followed these cases closely as a Speedster owner because I couldn’t imagine what we had missed.
A couple of months ago an article appeared in the 356 Registry club magazine that recapped the litigation and for the first time, that I saw, posted the VIN of the car in question. It was 84908.
What? Wait, wasn’t that the same number that was stamped into the clip on the front of 83401 that I had found back in 2011? I went back and dug through the files in the computer looking for the shop pictures. Yes, it was and I still had the photos to prove it. Don’t you just love computers? They never lose anything. All I had to do was connect the numbers and with an engineering background that was easy.
The car that everyone was fighting over was clearly not 84908 because I knew where that was. Well, at least I knew where most of it had been for the last 52 years. I put a call into the attorneys for Fica Frio Limited overseas. After a chat that included the original appraiser that waved the “fake” flag they determined that my information had no value to them and the conversation was over. The lawyers would not allow the appraiser to tell me what tipped him off but I did tell him he was correct. I would’ve thought that the case could be resolved pretty quickly if there was more information than just two guys arguing their opinion about a restoration on a 61 year old car. Maybe not.
I got the same reaction from the lawyers that had filed the second suit. I told them that I would appear as an expert witness who could attest and actually provide access to the front half of 84908 but after some missed conference calls and unreturned voice mails that path went cold. I guess I just don’t understand the law.
I did reach out to the owner of European Collectibles who couldn’t have been nicer and more interested. While he had completed the restoration before the sale to Seinfeld in 2012, it had been started by a shop that had closed years ago. As a dealer in CA with records of purchase and a trail back to that FL shop I believe that EC is not the guilty party but the hobby itself is really the biggest loser. He’ll be contacting the current owner to see how many of the empty spaces that they can fill in together.
Now vintage Porsches will be looked upon with a degree of suspicion that wasn’t there before these lawsuits started flying. We have all read about the two Ferraris that showed up on the show field with the same VIN. I guess we’ll have to look a little closer at the numbers on Porsches from here on.
KTF
I have seen some strange things happen with cars over the years but none stranger than the story that you’re about to hear. Settle back with an adult beverage and listen to this tale.
Because I’ve been playing with these old Tubs since college, I have a lot of connections in the restoration area and have used many craftsmen over the years. I have a guy that punches out perfect louvers in engine covers. I know another that can make (from scratch) a 356 Carrera 2 oil tank. I work with shops that can install floors and battery boxes in 50 year old cars and make them look correct and original. Because of those resources I have folks that call me looking for someone to work on their rides that they can have confidence in. I don’t have any problem making connections for people, keeps good shops in business and keeps old cars on the road. It’s what I call my hobby.
One such call came from a well-known shop back in 2011 that wanted some metal work done on a customer’s car before they painted it. They could have done it in house but were backed up and didn’t want to delay the restoration. The owner had driven the Speedster for 52 years having bought it in California for the princely sum of $850. He was told that the car had been in an accident and that the front of the car had been replaced, hence the low selling price. Back in those days nobody cared.
I sent the shop to a master metal worker in Bridgewater who had done a few Tubs for me and really knew these cars well. After a couple of weeks I got a call from him asking if I could stop by the shop because he had a few questions and some concerns about the earlier repairs. The front had been clipped with the nose from another Speedster. It had been braised onto the car which is how it was done before TIG and MIG welding was invented. Remember, this was back in the early ‘60’s and the cars weren’t worth much. The VIN number didn’t match since the nose is where the Factory stamped the chassis number and that was from another car. The VIN plate attached by the fuel tank said 83401 and the number stamped in the nose said 84908.Photo attached below.
I went home and checked my Speedster book to discover that the replaced nose was from a Carrera Speedster, a car that is worth about three times the normal engine pushrod Speedster it was attached to. It was easy to tell because the book gave 84908 an engine number that was for a four cam engine. Back in the day they held no greater value than a car with a pushrod engine, if anything they were worth less because few mechanics could keep a four cam engine running smoothly. Someone had sacrificed a Carrera Speedster, one of 151 built, to repair a pushrod car which numbered over 4200. I would assume that 84908 was either hit hard in the rear or suffered an engine fire leaving only the portion forward of the windshield posts usable. After a few phone calls, the instructions from the owner, through the original shop, were to leave it alone, he had bought the car as 83401, it was registered as 83401 all these years and considered it to just be part of the story of the car. The metal work continued.
Repairs were done, paint and assembly completed and the owner joined the local club and showed the car with great success. Red Speedsters are always a big hit and 83401 won the first time out at a TYP356NE show last year. The VIN number situation lay dormant under the front trunk mat. Just last month he took another first place in the 356 class at the Patrick Dempsey Porsche Show in Maine.
Last year the classic car world was shaken by news of lawsuits filed against and by Jerry Seinfeld over a Carrera Speedster that he had sold to an investment group in England, Fica Frio Limited. They claimed the car was not “authentic”. Jerry in turn sued the company he bought the car from, European Collectibles, since they had sold the car to him and had completed the restoration after their purchase from a shop in Florida when the owner had passed away.
In car circles the real question that everyone wanted to know was what made the car “fake”. Many of us had seen the car up close, including myself, in Scottsdale a few years ago. The car had won numerous awards and had been inspected by world experts for years with never a word of concern. The panels all fit perfectly, the engine was correct, alloy panels were present and the color, Auratium Green was reported to be the only example done in that color.
The media reported that the car was sold at a Gooding & Co auction in 2016. As Fica Frio Limited prepared to resell the car in 2017 an inspection was done and it was determined that the car was not as represented. When contacted, Jerry Seinfeld was reported to have said that he would take the car back and refund their money. However, the money was never returned and so in the fall of 2018 the lawsuit was filed in a New York court. In the belief that he could pass the car back to European Collectibles, Seinfeld’s lawyers then filed their suit against the original seller in California. Neither lawsuit described in detail what it was about the car that made it fake or counterfeit. That left the classic car community buzzing about what the problem could be. I followed these cases closely as a Speedster owner because I couldn’t imagine what we had missed.
A couple of months ago an article appeared in the 356 Registry club magazine that recapped the litigation and for the first time, that I saw, posted the VIN of the car in question. It was 84908.
What? Wait, wasn’t that the same number that was stamped into the clip on the front of 83401 that I had found back in 2011? I went back and dug through the files in the computer looking for the shop pictures. Yes, it was and I still had the photos to prove it. Don’t you just love computers? They never lose anything. All I had to do was connect the numbers and with an engineering background that was easy.
The car that everyone was fighting over was clearly not 84908 because I knew where that was. Well, at least I knew where most of it had been for the last 52 years. I put a call into the attorneys for Fica Frio Limited overseas. After a chat that included the original appraiser that waved the “fake” flag they determined that my information had no value to them and the conversation was over. The lawyers would not allow the appraiser to tell me what tipped him off but I did tell him he was correct. I would’ve thought that the case could be resolved pretty quickly if there was more information than just two guys arguing their opinion about a restoration on a 61 year old car. Maybe not.
I got the same reaction from the lawyers that had filed the second suit. I told them that I would appear as an expert witness who could attest and actually provide access to the front half of 84908 but after some missed conference calls and unreturned voice mails that path went cold. I guess I just don’t understand the law.
I did reach out to the owner of European Collectibles who couldn’t have been nicer and more interested. While he had completed the restoration before the sale to Seinfeld in 2012, it had been started by a shop that had closed years ago. As a dealer in CA with records of purchase and a trail back to that FL shop I believe that EC is not the guilty party but the hobby itself is really the biggest loser. He’ll be contacting the current owner to see how many of the empty spaces that they can fill in together.
Now vintage Porsches will be looked upon with a degree of suspicion that wasn’t there before these lawsuits started flying. We have all read about the two Ferraris that showed up on the show field with the same VIN. I guess we’ll have to look a little closer at the numbers on Porsches from here on.
KTF