Starter temporarily stuck

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Richard Holler
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Tag: 1963 356 S T6 coupe
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Starter temporarily stuck

#1 Post by Richard Holler » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:07 pm

so a few months back had my first issue with my starter, It endured a long drive during a midwest club event and when I tried starting it again in the garage the day after the car wouldn't start. no click, slight dim of lights. battery was 100% fine. So got the rear wheels up and I was able to start it again with small knock on the starter while my wife started the car.

sooo.. I noticed that one of my valve covers was not sealing properly which may have oil contaminated the starter. what is my next course of action in regards to troubleshooting/repair further? I addressed the valve cover and it seems the car starts fine now, but I am a little concerned of ongoing issues. the starter motor seems to have seen better days as the exterior had a lot of rust oxidation (not unlike the rest of this car :P ). I am guessing its the original starter from the history of this car...
1963 356 S T6 Karmann Coupe (stock engine)
Front disc brake conversion
GDP Dual Exhaust
Momo Classic steering wheel
SMD headlights
CUlayer LED rear tails
Superleicht spec (aka missing V brace and copious amounts of Bondo)

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Doug McDonnell
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Location: Augusta,Michigan

Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#2 Post by Doug McDonnell » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:24 pm

PM sent.Great shop close to you in Wisconsin, advertizes in Registry Magazine: abcpartswerks. If original have it rebuilt. If not original just trade for a rebuilt starter from them. And make sure to install a new starter bushing when you change the starter.You will regret it if you don't. As long as your valve covers are straight just use Vic Skirmants metal sandwich valve cover gaskets. Pretty sure Stoddard sells them also.
1965 356C There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

Geoff Fleming
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Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#3 Post by Geoff Fleming » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:56 pm

More often than not this is a case of sufficient voltage not getting through to the starter. Examine the cables at the battery...remove the ground strap, wire brush the chassis area where it will attach, then diligently clean it or replace with a new one. Now turn toward the cable on the plus side...any corrosion visible? If so, remove clamp, cut back the cable about an inch and you should see clean copper. Now replace the clamp after cleaning it. Clean the transmission to body ground on the passenger side, and the areas where it clamps. Get under the car, remove the wires at the starter and be sure they are clean and have tight fit, especially the thin one that activates the solenoid. If really ambitious, remove the starter and clean the face where it mates with the transmission and the trans itself. A new, ( very inexpensive), starter bushing would be a great idea. Even a slight drop in voltage can affect the starter.
Since you had the problem with a warm engine I would suspect the starter bushing as the main culprit. My first Porsche would always start when cold but after use I experienced the same symptoms you described.

george kehler
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Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#4 Post by george kehler » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:07 pm

I just had my first issue with my 2.5 year old Bosch starter. Battery and wires at starter good voltage. My body guy used a screwdriver give a boost and rotated the starter. Are these starters not as good as previous ?? What is the “best” starter out there ?? Not fun to turn the key, push the button, and nothing ...... Do I have to carry a floor jack with me everytime I go for a spin ??
George Kehler II

1955 Coupe
1971 911 S
1997 993 Targa

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#5 Post by Doug McDonnell » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:55 pm

George my experience with Bosch Premium rebuilt starter was such that I would never buy one again. Lasted less than a year. Get a starter from abcpartswerks. They rebuild them in house. Doug Darrah a long time 356er owns the business. Or get one from Al Zim He has a local rebuild his.
1965 356C There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

george kehler
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Location: johnson city, tn

Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#6 Post by george kehler » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:48 am

Thanks Doug !! Just spoke with Doug Darrah and bought one of his starters. Very professional and he will also include a bronze bushing of which you speak. Great insurance to have a starter that won’t let you down.
George Kehler II

1955 Coupe
1971 911 S
1997 993 Targa

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Norm Miller
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Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#7 Post by Norm Miller » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:25 pm

Bosch says the solenoid will not fire/engage if the voltage present is less than 5.7 +/-.
After cleaning terminals and no results purchase a Bosch kit # WR1.
Keep in mind as temperature rises voltage lowers.
If you have a battery shut off installed try removing it from the system as they are known to be a voltage suck!
If you are inclined you can run a 16 ga wire from the #50 terminal of the solenoid to a position near a 6 volt terminal and by touching the wire to the terminal will kick the solenoid. If this doesn't work it's time to pull the starter for maintenance.
 

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Al Zim
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Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#8 Post by Al Zim » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:52 pm

I think we have been doing starter and generators for a really long time. Fortunately the guy that runs the shop doing our work is younger than I am. Every generator gets new fields an armature, brushes and sealed bearings. We may also have to replace the end caps on the generator if the armature has bee out of balance and elongated the bearing hole. Same deal on the starters. If you have your starter off be sure you gently rotate the engine and check the teeth on the ring gear. The engine usually stops in the same place and the starter hits the same ring gear teeth. We can replace the ring gear resurface the flywheel and balance it correctly. Usually when other companies rebuild the starter they clean it and refit new brushes that is why they sell them so cheap. Everything wears out having them reconditioned properly is essential. al zim Zim's Autotechnik
 

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Richard Holler
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Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#9 Post by Richard Holler » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:32 am

Thanks for the help, this abcpartswerks I can't seem to find? When I search google, the contact info appears to have a florida address. Where is the place in Wisconsin?
1963 356 S T6 Karmann Coupe (stock engine)
Front disc brake conversion
GDP Dual Exhaust
Momo Classic steering wheel
SMD headlights
CUlayer LED rear tails
Superleicht spec (aka missing V brace and copious amounts of Bondo)

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#10 Post by Doug McDonnell » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:46 am

http://abcpartswerks.com Appleton,Wi but owner Doug Darrah Semi retired to Florida. Shop is still run by his kids. If you call the number you will be talking to Doug last I checked.
1965 356C There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

george kehler
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:24 am
Location: johnson city, tn

Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#11 Post by george kehler » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:03 am

Doug Darrah is in Florida and will answer directly. Got mine in 2 days. Great peace of mind to have a “new” one. As you know, these are tucked away in an almost inaccessible area.
George Kehler II

1955 Coupe
1971 911 S
1997 993 Targa

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#12 Post by Doug McDonnell » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Be sure to let us know how you resolve your situation. Too many threads die without an answer. So are of no use to the next person who searches a problem.
1965 356C There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

george kehler
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Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:24 am
Location: johnson city, tn

Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#13 Post by george kehler » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:07 pm

Call the 920-378-5538 number and Doug Darrah will answer. That’s how I contacted him.
George Kehler II

1955 Coupe
1971 911 S
1997 993 Targa

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Richard Holler
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Tag: 1963 356 S T6 coupe
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Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#14 Post by Richard Holler » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:30 pm

I have been driving it around a bit and the starter issues have disappeared, if it happens again I will take it in, but for now I am going to take the "wait and see" approach. thanks for all the input all.
1963 356 S T6 Karmann Coupe (stock engine)
Front disc brake conversion
GDP Dual Exhaust
Momo Classic steering wheel
SMD headlights
CUlayer LED rear tails
Superleicht spec (aka missing V brace and copious amounts of Bondo)

User avatar
Richard Holler
356 Fan
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:04 pm
Tag: 1963 356 S T6 coupe
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: Starter temporarily stuck

#15 Post by Richard Holler » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:13 pm

so it happened again, it appears to happen when the engine is heatsoaked on long trips on the highway. I will be pulling it for a rebuild this winter. A simple knock on the solenoid while my wife starts the car un freezes it and then its good for shorter trips around town with no issues.
1963 356 S T6 Karmann Coupe (stock engine)
Front disc brake conversion
GDP Dual Exhaust
Momo Classic steering wheel
SMD headlights
CUlayer LED rear tails
Superleicht spec (aka missing V brace and copious amounts of Bondo)

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