Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

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gregg hake
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#16 Post by gregg hake »

Vic Skirmants wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:42 pm Is there part of an old bushing hiding in there?
I don't think there is any part of an old bushing in there. The steel one was all the way in and it came out in one piece.

Here is the "Before extraction" shot

I will feel around tonight and make sure there isn't some debris in there.
IMG_4472 (002).jpg
IMG_4472 (002).jpg (186.41 KiB) Viewed 3198 times

Geoff Fleming
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#17 Post by Geoff Fleming »

You don't really have to completely remove the engine in order to replace the starter bushing.
Remove the four bolts and then the engine can be pulled a few inches away from the transmission. This will allow you to access the inside surface of the starter shaft opening letting you clearly observe the progress of the new bushing. Now you just slide the motor back into place, cinch up the bolts and the operation is over.

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#18 Post by Doug McDonnell »

Gregg In your 1st photo your driver looks like it is much smaller diameter than the bushing. Is this an optical illusion?
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#19 Post by Vic Skirmants »

Doug McDonnell wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:31 pm Gregg In your 1st photo your driver looks like it is much smaller diameter than the bushing. Is this an optical illusion?
Doug; that's a magnet, showing that the bushing was of ferrous composition.

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Bob Kittel
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#20 Post by Bob Kittel »

Remember that bushings are sized correctly for press fit. If the OD is to large and you pound it in somehow the ID actually changes, gets somewhat smaller. I do not know if this would affect the fit to the starter shaft. I would be afraid to pound this bushing in with the force that you are using. You could crack the starter bushing boss or crack it off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_fit
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John Clarke
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#21 Post by John Clarke »

Vic Skirmants wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:55 pm
Doug McDonnell wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:31 pm Gregg In your 1st photo your driver looks like it is much smaller diameter than the bushing. Is this an optical illusion?
Doug; that's a magnet, showing that the bushing was of ferrous composition.
:D :D :D
 

gregg hake
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#22 Post by gregg hake »

Update...So after Vic's comment on "Is there part of an old bushing hiding in there" I went home last night and, with a borrowed borescope, I peeked in the hole and found a very thin ring of metal (1/32 to 1/16") lining the very bottom of the hole. And since I was able to see all around the "ring", I could see a jagged part sticking up about an 1/8 of an inch on the side closest to the flywheel gear, which wasn't visible when I took pictures with my phone..
This would be the culprit in keeping my replacement bushing from going all the way in, I assume.
With the limited time I had before turning in, I tried to see if I could move the ring around but it is tight as can be. Now I am trying to figure out how to get that buggar out of there.
If it were brass, it would probably be easy, but mine is the rare sintered steel, unfortunately.

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Wes Bender
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#23 Post by Wes Bender »

"There once was a gentleman named Vic.
Troubleshooting long distance was his shtick.
No matter what the problem was,
He could determine the cause,
And that, friends, is a pretty good trick."

(and now I'm retiring.....)
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.....

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#24 Post by Doug McDonnell »

Most excellent Wes!
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Phil Planck
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#25 Post by Phil Planck »

Maybe a blind hole tap od same size you use would grab it
Phil Planck

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steven mclean
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#26 Post by steven mclean »

Loosen the engine bolts drive piece through?

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#27 Post by Vic Skirmants »

Wes Bender wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:00 pm "There once was a gentleman named Vic.
Troubleshooting long distance was his shtick.
No matter what the problem was,
He could determine the cause,
And that, friends, is a pretty good trick."

(and now I'm retiring.....)
:D :) :D

gregg hake
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#28 Post by gregg hake »

Minor Update: Using a Hi Def bore-scope, I was able to peer into the bell housing bushing hole and see there is a chunk of metal that covers from about 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock along the edge and it is thick enough to keep the new bushing from going in all the way...the final 1/8 of an inch. This appears to be why I couldn't get my new bushing in.
At first I assumed it was leftovers from the steel bushing I removed but the more I examine it, the more I think it is not bushing leftovers. The bushing I removed does not have that portion missing, but it does appear to have been trimmed down so that bushing would go in all the way despite the interference.
I made a little 1/16 inch chisel using a hardened nail punch and found it would not move the metal interference, so I had to use a dremel with a fine bit in it and finesse the interference out, which I was able to do without messing up the surface of the side walls. I have now cleaned it and mildly polished the inner barrel and am waiting to get some dry ice so I can shrink the newest bushing and put it in place.

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Thomas Sottile
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#29 Post by Thomas Sottile »

IThink it would have made better sense to have removed the engine

gregg hake
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Re: Starter Bushing Installation with Motor in Car

#30 Post by gregg hake »

Final update:
On July 3rd, I attempted to install the newest bushing by freezing it in Acetone and Dry Ice and trying to insert it, but it only went in 1/2 way before stopping, so I said "Screw it!"
I pulled the engine over 4th of July, and used a bolt, washers, and nut to pull the bushing in the rest of the way. It went in easily this way.
Thank you for all your input.

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