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Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:01 pm
by Adam Wright
Martin Benade wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:53 am
At my shop sometimes the best course is to spend some hours beginning the straightening. It will become obvious if it will work out well or not. As to filler, purists don't approve, but the thirty-year old filler I ground off my car was still holding up perfectly, mostly because it wasn't covering up any rust.
Plastic filler used correctly will last a long long time. My car was restored in the 80s and was recently taken down to bare metal, the bondo was holding fine.
Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:06 pm
by Geoff Fleming
I prefer the metal infused fillers. They tend to be less porous and set up harder. Used correctly, plastic based fillers do a good job.
Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:10 pm
by Adam Wright
Geoff Fleming wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:06 pm
I prefer the metal infused fillers. They tend to be less porous and set up harder. Used correctly, plastic based fillers do a good job.
I think the problem with plastic fillers that give it a bad name is there is little barrier to entry, as it were, skill wise. Anyone can mix bondo, so it gets applied badly by many. But used correctly it is a good product. Unlike lead or lead-less solder that takes some learned skill to apply so you see it usually used correctly by someone who knows what they are doing.
Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:12 pm
by Adam Wright
Adam Wright wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:10 pm
Geoff Fleming wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:06 pm
I prefer the metal infused fillers. They tend to be less porous and set up harder. Used correctly, plastic based fillers do a good job.
I think the problem with plastic fillers that give it a bad name is there is little barrier to entry, as it were, skill wise. Anyone can mix bondo, so it gets applied badly by many. But used correctly it is a good product. Unlike lead or lead-less solder that takes some learned skill to apply so you see it usually used correctly by someone who knows what they are doing.
But there has been bad bondo, anyone remember UV bondo in the 90s? I used that on a GTI, it was a nightmare. The sun was the hardner...
Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:35 am
by Harlan Halsey
Bondo is the trade name of a polyester resin which came to wide use after WWII. Although these are excellent products, light weight, hard enough, easy to apply, and long lasting, they got a poor reputation, because, as Adam has noted, they are so easy to apply improperly.
To apply polyester resin properly, the surface is prepared just as it would be for lead or paint. That is to say, smoothed to your standards and completely rust free. (I know an excellent body and paint man who makes a practice of removing the lead from the front fender to rocker panel seam and replacing it with resin on every restoration, because the residual acid from the leading process can cause paint problems later on.)
However, lead is stronger and Porsche made the joints between panels of lead for that reason. (That is how they got the 3mm gap and that is why even when you got a new door or other movable panel from Porsche it didn't fit.)
But, epoxy resin to the rescue. Epoxy resin is much harder than polyester resin, hard enough to substitute for lead at the panel edges. Consequently, epoxy resin is a lot harder to shape. So it is only used where necessary. (I have used a product intended for boats, Marine Tex.)
Two of my race cars, the Lotus Elite, and the Ginetta, are mostly made of polyester resin in the form of fiberglass. Each was restored from a basket case more than 30 years ago. The Carrera pictured to the right was restored from a basket case in 1978-79 without any new lead. I would encourage anyone planning a repair or restoration up to Pebble Beach level, to skip the lead, but not to slight the preparation.
Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:25 am
by Eric McKinley
PRS is a great bunch of guys who work out of an old workshop in Essex, they are experts at their trade.
Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:13 am
by John Clarke
Hi Eric
Yes, I know Paul & Mike well, and their team do great 356 work. I'm not sure though if all their body work goes out to Bruce at Sportswagen in Southend.
I would definitely use Bruce, but he's a little too far away for me, so I am trying a recommended local Body Shop. I will try and post some pics before ,during and after and report back. We are going to try to pull most of the damage out. Thanks for the heads up.
Regards Jay
Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:50 am
by George Hussey
Mikes panels are very well fitting but he as well as we also sell the Dansk panels. We for the most part have not had a problem with them, (I think Mike will vouch for this) and we are happy that at least someone is taking the time and money to do it. The factory certainly is not
John Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:00 pm
I was thinking just the same thing Jon. It doesn't instil much confidence, with the ongoing exhaust fit problems!
Has anyone used Mike DeJonge's 356 Panels? I believe Mike has a 911 Design European base. We need a FNS Wing, & NS Door Skin or complete door for the smashed 61 BT5 Coupe
Cheers Jay
Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:56 am
by George Hussey
funny, several years ago the chairman of the board of Bondo Corp brought us his 914-6 for a bit of sweetening and storage. Of course I had to make the statement: "Julio, I hope that your car is full of bondo!"
Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:50 pm
by John Clarke
Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:01 pm
by Roy Smalley
Cowl is a tad distorted, repairable, but overall, it appears strip and repair is by far the best way to go; much less invasive and a whole lot less work and $$. Door, rocker and fender. You might be surprised when the fender is stripped adjacent to the door opening.....
RoySmalley
Eurowerks, Inc.
Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:38 pm
by John Clarke
Hi Roy
On top of all this damage, I asked my body guy to investigate a 'few' other issues on the body while it has to be re sprayed . The more paint that he removed has exposed a lot of other older badly done repairs. on the rear quarters behind the rear side windows there is really thick filler over metal that looks and feels like it has been hammered, leaded and filled. Perhaps this is normal.
The complete body is going for soda blasting as he found that the wrong base primer had been used with the metal beneath starting to rust. The more we expose, the more we find. Its getting scary!
Regards Jay
Re: New Panels for BT5
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:52 pm
by Adam Wright
John Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:38 pm
Hi Roy
On top of all this damage, I asked my body guy to investigate a 'few' other issues on the body while it has to be re sprayed . The more paint that he removed has exposed a lot of other older badly done repairs. on the rear quarters behind the rear side windows there is really thick filler over metal that looks and feels like it has been hammered, leaded and filled. Perhaps this is normal.
The complete body is going for soda blasting as he found that the wrong base primer had been used with the metal beneath starting to rust. The more we expose, the more we find. Its getting scary!
Regards Jay
Yeah, it's scary when you look behind the curtain sometimes.