1st Start-Cant turn over

[Vic Skirmants]

Hey Gregg,
Could your valves be mis-adjusted such that you have full compression on multiple cylinders at the same time. Too much for the starter to overcome?
-Greg

I don't see how that is possible.

[Wes Bender]

It would take a weird camshaft or even weirder crank......

[gregg hake]

I used to think I had a pretty good mechanical aptitude, having spent my entire life building machines and factories for numerous products, but this car has convinced me that I am blazing new trails at "Doing it wrong the first time (and sometimes the second time)".

I will put the plugs back in tonight and see what happens.

[Tim Berardelli]

Gregg,

Did you measure piston to head clearance and valve to piston clearance prior to final assembly?

[Dick Weiss]

Using the B/bore P/C kit having the 30 degree piston crowns, the 1,0mm cylinder base shim was required to provide clearance between the exhaust valves (around .040") if no machining was done to the heads, but the piston deck height must be checked, too.
B/bore P/Cs have been recently available w/22 degree piston crowns, but the above still must be checked.
You may or may not need the 1,0mm base shim.

I use a pressure gage on the oil junction block and w/the plugs removed and using the starter to oil-prime the engine, I usually get around 30-35PSI w/20W (or 10/30W) oil. The carbs are fully open to breath freely.

[Harlan Halsey]

I would assume that you rotated the engine many times during assembly, finally adjusting the valves on the bench. So there can be no interferences and you have a feel for the force necessary without the plugs. That leaves only the clutch and the starter. If the clutch were the problem you would notice the drag. That leaves the starter. How you could test the starter out of the bell housing is beyond me as the bell housing has the armature bearing in it.
But the issue with the starter bushing in the bell housing is well known: The clearance between the armature and the field poles is small. When the bushing wears enough to allow the armature to contact the poles high drag results. The load on the pinion gear increases the drag. The result is that the starter cannot turn the engine enough to start it. Does this help?

[George Hussey]

after checking the transmission to body ground and the battery neg to body ground, if still slow, you could temporarily jump with 12 volts to see if the starter spins quickly, if it does not the starter is bad

[gregg hake]

Hi

Todays update...went home last night after work, installed the spark plugs and turned the key. The starter and engine turn freely now with no odd noises. After a couple of 15 second bursts, I had 30 lbs of oil pressure.
Tonight, I plan on adding some gas and trying for that first successful start.

To answer some of the other questions raised;
1. Head and valve/piston clearances were measured by my machinist (who is also a Porsche engine builder).
2. 1mm shim is being used.
3. I verified the starter runs and actuates properly by pulling it out of the bell housing, leaving the wires connected (added a ground wire), and had my son turn the key while I verified both stater and solenoid actions.
4. While assembling, I turned the engine alot. It always felt tight by hand but it turned smoothly with no bumpin' or grindin' going on.

Thanks for all the input guys. I will let you know what happens tonight.

Gregg

[Wil Mittelbach]

I assume it is a Porsche starter. I purchased it from the Porsche dealer as a Bosch Remanufactured starter 20 years ago and it sat in the box until I installed the engine this year. Are there some distinguishing marks on them to help me verify this?

Gegg -
Your 20 yr old re-manufactured starter never having been used before, may be defective (insufficient torque) under load and yet be be free spinning without load. Suggest you try another known operative Porsche 6v starter as a comparison.
The original 6v starter in my '65C has no problem whatsoever spinning or starting its modified larger displacement engine.

[gregg hake]

Hi Gentlemen

Thursday Update. Last night I put some gas in the tank, turned on the electric fuel pump to get gas to the carbs, noted gas squirting into the carb barrels (got a fire extinguisher handy), and turned the key.

Starter and motor turned over nicely, but there was no sign of any combustion at all. It was getting late by then so I retired for the evening.

So, I guess we have resolved the starter concerns and now I can start the troubleshooting of the inability to start.

Again, your input is invaluable...Thanks again.

Gregg

[Jon Schmid]

Gregg, I can only speak from my limited personal experience, but a typical culprit if you find you are not getting spark is the condenser, especially if they are Turkish made Bosch. Don't ask me how I know. Good luck!

[David Jones]

Greg, splash about an egg cup full of gas into each carb throat before you spin it over after you have oil pressure. With everything being dry it can take a while otherwise to get enough gas vapor into the cylinders.

[gregg hake]

Gregg, I can only speak from my limited personal experience, but a typical culprit if you find you are not getting spark is the condenser, especially if they are Turkish made Bosch. Don't ask me how I know. Good luck!

I shall check it. Thanks Jon.

[gregg hake]

Greg, splash about an egg cup full of gas into each carb throat before you spin it over after you have oil pressure. With everything being dry it can take a while otherwise to get enough gas vapor into the cylinders.

I had to google "Egg Cup" I will try your suggestion, David.

[John Hearn]

David
I don't think they use egg cups in USA!!
And as for "soldiers" to dip into egg.........
From the "old" country
KTF
John