Understanding the ZF box?

[Chip Flor]

Jack Staggs of San Clemente CA rebuilds these early boxes (949) 492-9606.
I have never done and business with him. He was one of the speakers at the 2019 North meets South tech session.
He is well respected amongst the SoCal 356 community.

[Ron LaDow]

[...]I agree the lump was/is a concern this is why I called the builder immediately. He explained that if you could turn it with two fingers that is is not too tight. I too think it is too tight, however he loc-tited the adjusting screw with the same 547 case sealant by loctite. He also loctite do the oil fill plug with the same loctite 547 case sealant.[...]

Experience counts here, and mine is limited to two 'rebuilds'.
If your wrench has experience beyond mine, I would yield to that knowledge; it might well be that s/he knows it's what to expect when fresh, especially if two fingers can run it by.
And if *you* change the adjustments, you're pretty much assured that any implied guarantee is void. When Pre Mat was doing Zeniths, the number of customers requesting warrantee work on carbs which had been subject to on-site fiddling was amazing.

[Ron LaDow]

And Jack is well-respected by a LOT of us, even if we are not So Cal residents.

[Neil Bardsley]

Jack Staggs of San Clemente CA rebuilds these early boxes (949) 492-9606.
I have never done and business with him. He was one of the speakers at the 2019 North meets South tech session.
He is well respected from people the SoCal 356 community.

If Jack can't fix your steering then I don't think that anybody can

[Simon Hitchman]

From my experience (i have only rebuilt two 356 boxes but about 200 VW bus ones..similar workings) as Ron said i would attempt to back the adjust screw off very slightly to avoid premature. wear... Not sure if you said but does it drive better with the rebuilt box? And did you change the flexible coupling between column and box?

[Geoff Fleming]

One additional bit of advice...if everything else checks out, regarding the centering of the box, link/king pins, toe-in, etc. have you considered the condition of the tires or even tires and wheels? Try substitution of your wheels with a set from another car, ( just swap the two front wheels for a start.) See if it makes a difference. You may even simply want to swap the front wheels with your own rears and see what happens.

[Wes Bender]

After reading your first post, I think there is one more thing to check. When you get the ZF box sorted out, check the alignment of the rear wheels. Make sure they have zero toe out. A degree of toe in is OK, but any amount of toe out will cause the car to wander as you describe.

[Chip Flor]

Thanks for all of the great tips. It is great to have insight from this forum. It is well appreciated.

[Al Zim]

The steering on you 356 depends on more than the steering box! To move correctly down the road. Comments such as"are the king and link pins in reasonable shape" do not qualify as proper evaluation of your front suspension. If you rebuilder does not have a P69, P70 and a VW 259 they cannot service your front end because they cannot tell what within specifications. If your are serious about your car the front torsion tubes need to be checked with a VW256A The shop should have a 40 ton press and a metric lathe. It has been our experience that the lower right trailing arm on the front is usually bend from hitting curbs, the king pin is usually worn in the spindle and the aftermarket brass bushings fit a little too tight. Purchasing suspension parts through the Registry Classified (and Ebay) can easily result in defective parts because the seller has no way to evaluate their condition. 356 cars were extremely well engineered, the factory provided tooling and training to service them. Unfortunately since their production stopped in 1965 no one saved the tooling and few individuals remain enamored with the car to continue learning about them. al zim 2019/05/30

[Geoff Fleming]

Yes, in a perfect world, all 356s would have factory- perfect settings. In the REAL 356 world, not one car in a thousand has been brought back to factory-new specs and most of these cars track perfectly and have wonderful steering, etc. You do not have to have access to every special tool in order to have a nice driving car. The hundreds of 356s that are driven to the East and West Coast Holidays every year are mainly maintained by the owner-enthusiast and even though many are driven hundreds, if not thousands of miles, at normal highway speeds, you rarely, if ever hear any tales of woe resulting from the suspension or steering.

[Norm Miller]

Yes, in a perfect world, all 356s would have factory- perfect settings. In the REAL 356 world, not one car in a thousand has been brought back to factory-new specs and most of these cars track perfectly and have wonderful steering, etc. You do not have to have access to every special tool in order to have a nice driving car. The hundreds of 356s that are driven to the East and West Coast Holidays every year are mainly maintained by the owner-enthusiast and even though many are driven hundreds, if not thousands of miles, at normal highway speeds, you rarely, if ever hear any tales of woe resulting from the suspension or steering.

+1
Tire pressure is highly suspected in most cases/complaints.

[Al Zim]

Mr. Flemming: Many cars other than Porsche are on the road in various levels of disrepair. Since Zim's is located on a major freeway we get to see accidents and broken vehicles on an almost daily basis. Fortunately the VW and 356 car were robust design to compensate for the quality of the roads prevalent during their design period. Just as it was pointed in previous posts you cannot just "buy" a set of tools and correctly overhaul your push rod engine. The Porsche factory provided a mechanics apprentice program thus they were able to select and train technicians to fix and build their cars. It would surprise me if 2% of the people that are involved with discussions in the Registry have this training. I will also venture a guess that most of the people who own these cars were trained and employed in a profession other than repairing Porsche automobiles. Because you are an engineer on the flight line here in Ft. Worth does not give you the opportunity to obtain knowledge about 60 year old Porsche cars.
Engines are blueprinted (which the factory was excellent at performing, using measuring tools that were extremely accurate) The same with suspension parts. To evaluate the level of confidence in correct suspension assembly read the shop manual concerning the method of setting the turn stop for the front wheels. The center bolt is the longest this is what keeps the tire from rubbing the fender. At any 356 event look at the suspension including the Zim's disc brake conversion and you will probably see the long bolt in one of the other positions that hold the backing plate to the spindle. With the shop manual in front of you (open) and the bolts clearly of different length how come we very seldom see them properly installed. Now you have told me that "owner maintenance" individuals can ascertain the condition of their suspension. My take on the subject is that most owner and other mechanics do not have the shop manual open when they are working on the car. Stop by and I will be glad to spend an hour with you or anyone else who would like to look over the shop. We are 6 miles from D/FW Airport. al zim 2019/05/31

[Chip Flor]

Al,
I own your version of the torquemeister gland/axle nut driver, solid state flasher, etc.
Your upgrades are well thought out. You are celebrated in this community and your words are wisdom beyond reproach. I'm a big fan. You actually called me once and took the time to trouble shoot a flasher problem for me. Most vendors would probably not have done this. But you did. I can tell you from this experience I will be a continued and loyal customer.

I've mounted my transaxle multiple times and have never been keen with my the monkey motion shifting. A friend of mine asked if I set the trans height/center with the special Porsche factory tool. At first, my eyes rolled and I thought "really a special factory tool for this?.

Sure enough I pulled the cover and linkage.... bingo my transaxle was way too low. Set it up with the special tool and now it's correct.
I was at first going to call BS on this tool but it really made a difference with the shifting. So I do understand that these special tools have their place. And, I agree with you the majority of professional shops (not just we lay tinkerer's) don't have not even know about these special tools even though the factory manual specs this to set up the transaxle installation.

I think Geoff was offering his well appreciated perspective. I don't think he meant any malice with his words. I think all of us, regardless of their mechanic background, respect the skills and know when to hand off king pin/ZF boxes etc. to the experts.

My problem comes when you pay top dollar from a well respected vendor and what comes back is exactly the same pitman arm play it was sent with. Regardless of the price of the work it should not be represented that there will be "no play". Then to find out after the fact that it was inherently part of the design is completely wrong. Being honest with people is important in my book. If you treat your customers as if they are not entitled to understand such things or even ask questions you will not get my business.

Anyway Al. I only wish I had sent you my box. I'm sure you would not have treated me like an asshole nor misled me. Thank you for your response.

[Jules Dielen]

Chip, is your steering damper ok? I replaced mine on my A, made a world of difference.

[Chip Flor]

Jules,
The steering dampner is brand new, as is the steering coupler..... however the castle nut bolt where the steering dampner connects to the pitman arm was finger tight. The cotter pin was in. In other words, the person who set up my front end thought that is was cool to have that built in play every time I initiated a turn.
How anyone can tighten this bolt finger tight and then put in the cotter pin, makes about as much sense as centering the steering wheel straight (with the ZF box 40-60 degrees off center) and then set the toe.

And, insult to injury it cost me $1800.00 to trouble shoot his mistakes, plus all the other damage he did to my car. I guess PT Barnum had it right!