What size for wheel spacers?

356 Porsche-related discussions and questions.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Pascal Zundel
356 Fan
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:31 pm

What size for wheel spacers?

#1 Post by Pascal Zundel »

Hello,
I just bought a set of 1962 Lemmerz 4.5" rims to replace aftermarket brazilian 5"5 rims. I am considering adding wheel spacers. What size would you recommend?
10 or 20mm? What was the original size mounted on carreras?
Can you share insights on benefits/down sides of this modification?
Thanks in advance.

User avatar
Harlan Halsey
356 Fan
Posts: 2339
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:05 pm
Location: No Cal SF Peninsula

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#2 Post by Harlan Halsey »

Carreras had no spacers. The 60mm drums on the race cars were used with steel center aluminum rim wheels with a compensating 20mm offset. On the rear these cars had 20 mm spacers so the same rims would fit either end of the cars. Porsche sized the wheel bearings, inner and outer for the load with the tire where they designed it.
If you stick spacers on a Porsche wheel, with stock wheels you overload the outer bearing, unload the inner bearing, and screw up the suspension geometry. On an SCCA race car compromise may make sense, but on a street car?

User avatar
Ron LaDow
356 Fan
Posts: 8092
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:45 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#3 Post by Ron LaDow »

^+1
Pretty sure you're going to need longer wheel studs to accept any spacers and individual spacers are a really bad idea anyhow.
And even a 40mm increase in tread width is not going to do anything at all other than make changing tires a pain.
Ron LaDow
www.precisionmatters.biz

User avatar
David Jones
Classifieds Moderator
Posts: 7323
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:32 pm
Tag: I wish I knew as much as I think I know.
Location: Kentucky

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#4 Post by David Jones »

But if you do happen to want to buy a set I do have a set of 10 for a very reasonable price. PM me for price negotiation if you wish.
Attachments
IMG_3739.jpeg
IMG_3739.jpeg (1.94 MiB) Viewed 1165 times
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715

Edwin Ek
356 Fan
Posts: 1898
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:16 am
Location: Santa Monica, CA

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#5 Post by Edwin Ek »

Harlan, using spacers screws up the suspension geometry?All those people using 5.5" rims and wider tires have it screwed up?
#6386

Dick Weiss
356 Fan
Posts: 4183
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:54 am

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#6 Post by Dick Weiss »

A slight correction for wheels and spacers w/regular 356 40mm front and rear brakes and the 60mm front brakes on Carreras; My T2 Carrera being a GS (NOT a GT) had regular steel wheels and 40mmm brakes.
I collected a totaled T2 '59 Carrera GS coupe which had the optional 60mm front brakes, steel/alloy wheels w/their 20mm offset, and the 20 mm spacers to maintain the same track relationship to the front end.
Adding spacers on 40mm F & R brakes w/4-1/2" wheels will tend to overloaded the outer bearing--especially before the front spindle was re-designed to be included in all the later 356s during early '57/'58 using the 30mm ID inner tapered roller bearing and the companion outer tapered roller bearing .
Also, my 60mm brake shoes are steel and NOT aluminum for the GT.

User avatar
Al Zim
356 Fan
Posts: 4309
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: FT.WORTH/DALLAS TEXAS
Contact:

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#7 Post by Al Zim »

If you are trying to keep the fenders looking full the off set wheels are the answer. Responding to other statements: Not all Carrera powered 356 cars had 60MM Brakes. With normal brakes and the use of the wheels with alloy rims a 19MM spacer with a longer wheel stud was installed at the factory. The only downside to 4.5 inch wheels is that your tire size is limited look for a Michelin (not from Coker) that is a 185/70 15 or a 195 /65 X15. Your Tire Rack salesperson will be looking on the computer for information on a car that is 55 years old and they no longer make tires for these cars as they did in 1956to 1965. Your mention of discarding the China chrome wheels this is probably an excellent plan. In my opinion these wheels are best for rolling your car around the shop. We have a huge amount of these wheels that Zim's would like to unload I will be glad to fill your pick up truck with these wheels for $200. The money is to get them out of the warehouse and into your vehicle. Back to wheel spacers, The quality of the Michelin tire is such that little gain will be realized by increasing the track of the vehicle. ALIGNMENT is the key to having the car go down the road where the wheels are parallel to each other front and rear. Safely after a plethora of technicians have worked on your car (some not so knowledgeable) you should consider your maximum speed to be 70MPH. Asa note on wheel bearings, the 356C bearing (if I remember correctly) are close in size to the bearings used on the full sized Pontiac cars. al zim 2019/05/27
www.allzim.com 
356 Parts and Services
www.facebook.com/ZimsAuto/
www.instagram.com/zims_autotechnik/

User avatar
Martin Benade
356 Fan
Posts: 12189
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:52 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#8 Post by Martin Benade »

I have seen lots of drastically offset wheels on American cars that still had decent wheel bearing life. I don’t think that’s much of an issue in the real world.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna

User avatar
Ron LaDow
356 Fan
Posts: 8092
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:45 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#9 Post by Ron LaDow »

Martin Benade wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 9:29 pm I have seen lots of drastically offset wheels on American cars that still had decent wheel bearing life. I don’t think that’s much of an issue in the real world.
Me too, living in SF (low riders), but I've yet to see an advantage.
Yes, you can spend time and money to do so with no real harm, but why didn't you buy a Big Mac instead?
Ron LaDow
www.precisionmatters.biz

User avatar
Harlan Halsey
356 Fan
Posts: 2339
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:05 pm
Location: No Cal SF Peninsula

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#10 Post by Harlan Halsey »

I go for the Kirk burger myself. Best by test in the ay Area!
Since the factory would do pretty much what the customer wanted, it may be that they held their nose and delivered a car with 40mm drums front and rear with 20mm spacers and the aluminum/steel wheels. Bui I bet that the standard setup was 40mm drums with steel wheels on the GS Carreras and 60mm front drums and 40mm rears with 20mm spacers with the aluminum/steel wheels on the GT Carreras. The spacers on my rear drums were threaded and torqued, not slip on as are some others I have. Now why is that? (It takes a special clamping wrench to remove and install them.)

BTW: I think the aluminum rim/steel center wheels are neat. I'd put the spare 60mm drums on my soon to be running '56 just to run those wheels. So let's all get together and get Stoddard to offer them in 4 1/2 an 5 1/2 widths.

Edwin Ek
356 Fan
Posts: 1898
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:16 am
Location: Santa Monica, CA

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#11 Post by Edwin Ek »

Pascal,

Something you might want to consider is using 4.5" rims in the front and 5.5" rims in the rear. For tires, stock size 165-78 in the front and 185-70 in the rear.

In my view, there are several attractive aspects to this setup.

It does nothing to affect the delightful, light, mechanical steering feel, which is one of the best, if not the best, characteristics of a later 356.

The accuracy of the speedometer is unaffected.

It cuts down on oversteer. Porsche itself started doing the same thing a few years later when it figured out what was going on.

It softens the on-stilts look at the rear.

It is a subtle modification which can be reversed in a few minutes.

Half the time, the spare tire will be the correct replacement (compared to an all 5.5" 185 setup).

If you want to use the spacers on the rear, you can have some rims with a custom offset made so that the extra inch is on the inside. That way the appearance is stock.

What kickstarted me down this road is when I bought my car, it had modified 5.5" rims at all 4 corners. Two of the rims had centers with dates that made me think they were original. I like to use original parts whenever possible. My wheel expert says you can't cut apart a steel wheel more than once. So they couldn't go back to stock.

Vredestein and Pirelli make tires in both sizes.
#6386

tom collingwood
356 Fan
Posts: 317
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:00 pm

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#12 Post by tom collingwood »

David Jones wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 10:19 am But if you do happen to want to buy a set I do have a set of 10 for a very reasonable price. PM me for price negotiation if you wish.
I have 5 of these in my parts stash.

User avatar
Al Zim
356 Fan
Posts: 4309
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: FT.WORTH/DALLAS TEXAS
Contact:

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#13 Post by Al Zim »

Why do I continually insist on a 70 MPH top speed for your car. Because every car that has come into our shop in the past 2 years has had worn our front suspension parts. At home you can hammer in a king pin in place all you need is a little luck in taking the one out without destroying the carrier and a hone to get the bearing to the proper size. We use the German king pin sets. YOU KNOW THE ONES WITH THE PLASTIC BUSHING. Place the bushing on an anvil and hit it with flat hammer just like your car does hits it as the suspension travels with additional wear because the car is not greased according the factory specifications for normal or heavy duty service. The bushings will become smaller that i not why we NEVER use them. If your shim stack for the link pins seem a little funny especially on the right lower trailing arm, then your car has hit a curb (not uncommon). That force is transmitted into the bearing at the end of the axle tube and usually causes the roller bearing that is at the axle tube end to groove the bearing race. I would guess that by the time your car has 150,000 miles this situation has occurred. Finally you should consider the condition of the steering box. When you adjust the sector pin does it bind? Ask your restorer if he has made the tooling to restore the steering gearbox.
www.allzim.com 
356 Parts and Services
www.facebook.com/ZimsAuto/
www.instagram.com/zims_autotechnik/

Norm Miller
356 Fan
Posts: 2506
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:14 am
Tag: Official curmudgeon
Location: Ft Collins CO

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#14 Post by Norm Miller »

If you use 1/8" spacers you won't have to use longer studs, 1/4" go to 50 mm studs.
!/4" will give you the best stance and look. The 20mm's are to fat for standard wheels.
 

User avatar
Bill Sargent
356 Fan
Posts: 1142
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:03 am
Tag: Faux-Cam
Location: Seattle, Washington

Re: What size for wheel spacers?

#15 Post by Bill Sargent »

If using 4.5” wheels on the rear of an A with 185/70-15 tires the most spacer you can run is 15mm. 20 mm will rub the fenders. If you run 165-15 the stock 20mm carrera spacers will work without rubbing. Either way you will need longer studs. Ashley Paige on this must makes very nice bull nose ones.
Regards,

Bill Sargent
#151489 59A Cab - Faux Cam
#159176 64C Cab
#460603 67 912
904 clone in the works

Post Reply