Engine dismantling 616/12. What do you think ?

[Al Zim]

There is also a lot of bad advice on the forum! How do you separate the good from the ban? EXPERIENCE! Most of you will do what you want to do for that I wish you success. Zim's can sell you parts and tell you how to install them a on your 356/912 most other retailer do not have the experience to assist you. al zim

[Harlan Halsey]

A number of issues here. But while the cause of the damage is intriguing, the cure for the drain plug is simple. You just tig weld a nut to it and unscrew it. (The heat from the tig expands the aluminum.)

As for the rest of the junk engine, the first step is to clean everything. Elfrink or Climer were better on that point than the factory manuals which assume that you start with clean parts.

[Bill Lawless]

I Agree it is fraud just swapping out the 3rd engine piece.....

But answer this:
I you had car, Say an SC Cab, with Non-Matching SC engine. And the original 3rd piece showed up on eBay for $200..

[Wes Bender]

... if you were not totally honest, you would buy the $200 third piece and install it. Depending upon how dishonest you were, when you sold the car, you would either claim it to be numbers-matching or at least not tell the new owner about the replacement. Somewhere down the road, an interesting conversation would probably take place regarding why the engine build number (or assembly number, or "case casting" number if you must use Harry's terminology) didn't correlate properly with the engine serial number. I.e. the build number indicates that the engine is a late '64, but the engine serial number indicates that it was built in '63. Hopefully, you would have disappeared by then and wouldn't have to explain the disparity. Worse, if it happens to be a 912 engine.

I'm not going that route myself, but then I already own a REAL matching-numbers car.

[Bill Lawless]

... if you were not totally honest, you would buy the $200 third piece and install it. Depending upon how dishonest you were, when you sold the car, you would either claim it to be numbers-matching or at least not tell the new owner about the replacement. Somewhere down the road, an interesting conversation would probably take place regarding why the engine build number (or assembly number, or "case casting" number if you must use Harry's terminology) didn't correlate properly with the engine serial number. I.e. the build number indicates that the engine is a late '64, but the engine serial number indicates that it was built in '63. Hopefully, you would have disappeared by then and wouldn't have to explain the disparity. Worse, if it happens to be a 912 engine.

I'm not going that route myself, but then I already own a REAL matching-numbers car.

Finding the 3rd piece, is probably worse odds then winning the Lottery... I could never scam somebody into thinking it's a # matching car, that would pretty sh###y
Plus, if you win the lottery you can just buy a nice # match car!!!

[Alexis Collaud]

I'm still working on the engine, have machined the crankshaft, bought new P&C, have machined the camshaft, and this morning my head cylinder came back and bad news 1 is cracked (it is the same chamber as the one which had been damaged by the piston)
I'm good to find a new head ... even 2 as the second seems to be also starting a crack even if it is almost invisible

This engine was really in a poor state

There is a mark "59,0" on the head (you can see it on the picture), can you tell me what is it ?

IMG_4945.jpg (288.22 KiB) Viewed 1036 times

[Craig Richter]

Your motor is/was in pretty bad shape, but all of us who work/worked on these critters have tackled projects that were just as bad. The pieces and parts and machining are all still out there if you look hard enough, and the real 356 enthusiasts commend you for keeping as many original parts on your car as possible. Carry on, and please let us see the progress.

[Larry Brooks]

I agree that most people with basic mechanical aptitude and access to a decent machine shop can rebuild a 356 engine successfully. When I was 16 I had to special order basic metric tools from the Napa store in my small town in 1970 to work on the Mercedes Diesel that was my second car. The first engine I rebuilt was in a Fiat 850 a year later. The second engine that I ever rebuilt was a 1962 356B engine a couple years later. I had that same Napa stores machine shop do all of the machine work. They had a very large shop with capable machinists since they did a lot of work for the local saw mills and paper mills. I ordered my P&C's from JC Whitney when they advertised an "Imported Big Bore" set for a very good price in their new catalog. The wording in that catalog created the impression that they were going to be German so I was surprised and dismayed when they arrived. Quite possibly one of the first sets of NPR P&C's, obviously from Japan. Like most people of that era I had a very low opinion of Japanese products for the simple reason that most of it was junk. I took the NPR's to the machine shop and had the head of the shop check them out. He was a WW2 vet with a strong dislike for the Japanese and their products. He spent hours trying to find fault with the set and grudgingly admitted that they were well made. I didn't have an engine stand so I reassembled the engine on the bench in my dads workshop. I drove that car hard for over 60,000 miles during the next four years.

So if a 20 year old with no training and very little experience could do it I've always figured most people with a reasonable amount of mechanical aptitude could do it.

[Emil Wojcik]

Back before the internet, there was no one around to tell us we were too stupid to rebuild our own engines and we did just fine.

Good luck with your rebuild. I'm sure it will be very satisfying to have done so much yourself once you're done...just like in the old days.

[Mike Wilson]

The numbers are the cc's of the combustion chamber.

Mike

[Al Zim]

I perused over my comments again and still find it difficult to believe that a 20 year old could properly restore a 356 engine. I was 20 in a Porsche VW shop and a Junior in college. with new parts I put the engine together but thinking back it is clear to me all the areas of fitment were not properly addressed. I am 57 ears older than that and have an outstanding collection of Porsche 356 factory tools as well as a machinist /fabricator working full time. Simple measuring of the piston pin to the bore in the connecting rod how do you do that there is a specification! How do you determine the fitment of the main bearings to the case and crank with out big dollars worth of measuring tools. Stop by, there are four 356 cars that other people have worked on and take a look. there is even a car we worked on in 1977 after we had been in business for 7 years. A good tech here can easily earn more than a long time college professor. al zim

[Larry Brooks]

Knowing what I know now, I agree that I was fortunate that my first rebuild of a 356 engine went so well. There ARE things that I didn't even know I should check or concern myself with at the time. The only manuals I had were a Chilton and an Elfrink which are certainly lacking compared to the factory manuals and Pellows. But I knew and respected the machinists at that Napa store because I got to know them when I got a job there at 16 and worked with them for a year restocking shelves. Their expertise and advice helped make the difference I'm sure.

At age 15 I started out driving overpowered Mopars which included Hemi's and Big Blocks so I was used to very high powered cars from the beginning. I then moved on to a Sunbeam Tiger with a Hi-pro 289. The Tiger convinced me that I wanted a sports car, but also that I wanted one that would corner and STOP. After much reading in R&T and Car and Driver I decided to get a 356. I had learned how to drive in very quick cars so my expectations were a bit high for that little 1600. I soon learned that I had to wind it up and keep it there if I wanted to go. So I hit redline on most of my shifts and stayed in the upper half of the tach unless cruising down the highway. I ran that 62 pretty hard. As I said, I know that I was fortunate to go over 60K and four years on that rebuild - what's the longest engine warranty on a rebuild these days?

But now I do think a 20 year old with mechanical aptitude and Pellows manuals who uses a competent machine shop should have a satisfactory rebuild experience. I also think most 356 engines are now being built to a higher standard than they were "back in the day". Mostly because of the vast amount of knowledge garnered from real world product testing of the 356 engine for the past 60 years. This forum is a perfect example.

The ironic thing is that I doubt if the vast majority of these engines that are being built to such a high standard will ever see 20,000 miles over the rest of their lifetimes.