Hi Martin, yes it's a full matching, I will keep the engine
I wanted to change the Pistons & Cylinder anyway, it is just just that there are some more work to do
I'll let you know what the machine shop will tell me ...
I hope you do not take offense to this, I would seriously question you experience in properly rebuilding this engine. You will have more money in the engine than it is ever going to be worth. Most experienced shops will not undertake (a good use of the word) a rebuild the shops that will do not have the experience and tooling to do it properly. Clean up the third piece and look for a done engine that it will fit on to. You still have a matching number car. You will not be the first person that has done this even the factory has changed serial numbers. al zim
www.allzim.com
356 Parts and Services
www.facebook.com/ZimsAuto/
www.instagram.com/zims_autotechnik/
Do you have a local machine shop familiar with 356 engines? Especially if it needs a line bore i would go to some trouble and expense to have an experienced set of hands on it. Anybody competent could measure it though.
It looks like it'll need a complete teardown and spend a lotta time to check everything to rebuild it completely as the crank will need a "correct refinish"
IF it passes specs from std. dimensions and a matched set of conrods (shown #s differ), oil pump gears may need replacement, but they look OK so far.
The case needs a full dimensional check, but the heads will need the most work--cleaning, inspecting for cracks, valves, guides, rocker assembly, and especially,
some fly-cutting the cylinder seat-faces to match the chamber CC's, pushrods, and their 'tubes'; camshaft lobes pitted, its timing gear, and of course the P/C's!
Never seen a drain bolt broken off like that which may have been caused by an "OFF ROAD EXPERIENCE" including a warped sump plate!
Al Zim wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:20 pmClean up the third piece and look for a done engine that it will fit on to. You still have a matching number car. You will not be the first person that has done this even the factory has changed serial numbers. al zim
If I understand this correctly, and perhaps I don't, this sounds like fraud no matter who does it or who has done it. Am I missing something/over-reacting?
Per Dick, keep taking it apart; it needs more than just pistons and cylinders; this is a complete rebop, but so far, it's not bad.
For starters, the oil pump tang looks better than most 'used' ones. You won't know anything about the heads or the case parts until you complete disassembly and measure or have them measured.
The stock push rod tubes are consumables; hope who ever supported the engine there didn't cost you any of the push rods, but even those are not deal-brakers. Pistons/cylinders are also pretty much consumables; assume you're going to buy new ones and take the time to fit them correctly. Cams are often but not always reusable and not a major expense. Cranks are always a question; how do you intend the use the car, how many cycles on the existing part, etc? A new one is spendy, but a broken one is more so. Martin's got the handle on the drain plug; at worst it's a drill-out removal by a competent machine shop.
Plenty of us have worked on far worse and turned them into far better. Nothing to whine about; keep spinning the wrenches.
You're in good shape.
Sebastian: In response to your comment about changing the third piece. I am sure this is done quite often. I purchased an early 1963 engine with a 912 third piece. I knew how to tell the difference so this was not a surprise. I also know of cars that started out as a closed car and ended as an open car. Wherever there is money involved there is the opportunity for dishonesty. Another example of this involves the S-90 engine which is a major financial bonus when installed in a 356. Adam does not have any of these cases remaining for sale. Change the third pi3ce and the carburetors/manifold/air cleaners and you have changed a normal engine into a S-90. This situation is present in the Registry Classified. Ron: I disagree with you regarding the continuation of the disassembly of the 356 engine on this post. The crank is not cross drilled, The oil pump housing is scored. Does this individual have the ability to pull all the oil galley plugs in the engine and clean the passages? If the heads are really bad why should you spend large amounts of $ to fix them when good Normal and Super heads can be purchased reasonably. A machine shop is going to be expensive to fix the drain plug (we all are) You still have not checked the diameter of the main bearing bore in the case are you going to use are you going to use a P 22 to set your line bore gauge or a micrometer? If you use a Micrometer do you use gauge blocks to check its accuracy. When new valve guides are installed in the head, you will need an accurate lathe to size them properly on the O.D. As a word of caution I would say to you if the shop you select to do your work does not have these basic tools, look for a shop that has these tools. In the latest Registry magazine (March/April 2019) Bob White briefly outlines what the factory did to engines that did not meet horsepower design. Enough said. al zim 2019/04/22
www.allzim.com
356 Parts and Services
www.facebook.com/ZimsAuto/
www.instagram.com/zims_autotechnik/
Also, *always* assuming that people who do not own a shop can not properly rebuild a 356 engine is a little naive. I remember you lecturing a friend of mine about how he could never rebuild his 912 engine properly but what you did not know is that he is a world class mechanical engineer that designs life saving medical devices so intricate and complicated it's mind boggling. Plus he has successfully rebuilt 356/912 engines before and believe it or not the cars still run!
Your sarcastic job offer in that previous post to anyone who can properly rebuild engines was also a bit painful to read, what you didn't take into account is that most of the people here who can properly build engines and don't do it for a living make three to five times what you could pay them, that's why you got no takers.
Al, you are a fountain of knowledge and a huge supporter of the hobby that many of us appreciate greatly, but sometimes man..................
Last edited by Sebastian Gaeta on Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
These are relatively simple engines. If you have the desire, time, aptitude and some rebuild experience you can do it. You can disassemble/clean/reassemble yourself. Send out the crank and heads, etc. to a reputable shop for inspection and rebuild. Of course there is the guy on another forum who assembled and ran his 6 cylinder Porsche engine and found that he had forgot to install the rod bearings
I don't know whats going on with this matching numbers situation. Lately I have seen an engine builder offer to sell the stamps so you can make a matching numbers engine by stamping the blank third piece as well as suggestions that swapping the case still keeps the car a 'matching numbers' car. It seems the concept of matching numbers has been distilled down to just the numbers. The importance of the actual components being original seems lost now. Somehow I think buyers who value the matching numbers status will have a different perspective on this unless they are just flipping the car.
It is definitely worth reusing all of the original case. It is probably a 10% to 20% increase in valuation these days. Plus, I think it is nice to preserve originality, to the extent you can, for its own sake.
Your engine needs a complete! rebuild. That's not a big deal- it has been true for thousands of other owners, and your car is over 50 years old.
Mismatched rods are a sure sign of shoddy previous work. Assume nothing and check everything, but you were going to do that anyway.
I sometimes think Al confuses machine work with assembly.
I agree, few guys are going to have the tools or know how to do their own machine work, I have mine done by a pro. But assembly, anyone can do with a some mechanical aptitude, a few tools, patience, a good manual and advice on this forum.
