3-piece case engine changes

[Brett Johnson]

I'm finishing up a new chapter about engine compartment which includes, of all things, the engine! There are a handful of different part numbers for the three piece engine case. Can those of you who know about such things, please let me know, what if any external changes are obvious between the engine cases listed below:

539.01.001.10 -- This is the first version with the oil seal cover -- made from November 1055 through September 1957

616.01.001.01 -- September 1957 - February 1958

616.01.001.20 -- February 1958 - March 1959

616.001.21 -- March 1959 - September 1959

616.100.134.00 -- September 1959 - February 1960

616.100.133.00 -- September 1959 - January 1960 (S-90)

616100.133.01 -- February 1960 -- through T 6 356B

616.100.133.02 -- 356C

[C J Murray]

Hi Brett. You should look at the Duane Spencer book if you haven't done so recently. Vic knows that stuff and may chime in. I thought the C case was a continuation of the T-6B case which was stronger than the T-5 case. The tell is the ribbing on the flywheel end. There were changes to the oil pump feed tube in size and the way it was sealed.

[Paul Hatfield]

356 C = electric tach. -- so no mechanical drive tap on the case.

[Brett Johnson]

Update -- could really use well lit high res. photos of these, preferably installed in correct year cars -- contact me: 356drb@indy.net

539.01.001.10 -- This is the first version with the oil seal cover -- made from November 1954 through September 1957

616.01.001.01 -- September 1957 - February 1958

Has strange oil thermostat on left side and doesn't have oil seal cover

616.01.001.20 -- February 1958 - March 1959

Doesn't have strange oil thermostat on left side???? No illustration or photos available

616.001.21 -- March 1959 - September 1959

?????? No illustration or photos available

616.100.134.00 -- September 1959 - February 1960

Has small oil pump

616.100.133.00 -- September 1959 - January 1960 (S-90 only)

Has small oil pump -- what is special about S 90 only?

616.100.133.01 -- February 1960 -- through T 6 356B

Has large oil pump -- there was also originally a 616.100.134.01 for Normal & Super, but was superseded to S-90 number

616.100.133.02 -- 356C

Has different generator stand -- tach drive is a different part and case does not change -- anything else?

[Jon Bunin]

Has small oil pump -- what is special about S 90 only?

Engine cases were supplied as spare parts with studs installed, and early Super 90 cases had longer sump studs for their unique sump system. That alone would require a different part number.

Over 3000 small pump engines were used in the early B cars, but only 49 of those were Super 90s. The Super 90 main bearings 1,2 and 3 were split shelled with tabs, while only the number 2 bearings for 1600 and 1600 Supers were split with tabs. I don't know if all 3000+ small pump B cases were machined for Super 90 main bearings, because that would have been a lot of unnecessary work, but it's possible. I don't have any B 1600 or 1600S small pump cases to inspect. If they weren't, that would be another difference. Also, all Super 90 engine cases had two hollow dowels around the number 2 main bearing, which the A series cases did not. I don't know if the early B series 1600 and 1600S cases with small pumps had these hollow dowels too.

Someone with one or more of the early B small pump cases can confirm whether they were machined for Super 90 main bearings, and/or the hollow dowels.

[Steve Hatfield]

C/SCs have beefed up oil cooler pads like 912. Also the enlarged o ring mounted oil pick up sump pipe came in late ‘63 as I recently rebuilt a Normal with that provision.

[Jon Bunin]

Someone with one or more of the early B small pump cases can confirm whether they were machined for Super 90 main bearings, and/or the hollow dowels.

Follow-up... I've now looked at images of a few early B cases, and it appears that the non-S90 cases were not machined for S90 main bearings or hollow dowels, so those are additional S90 case differences.

Here's an early B 1600 case on eBay, casting dates 11/60, without bearing tab cutouts or hollow dowels...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NICE-CLEAN-ORI ... SweW5VNjQn
Is one lifter bore broken on this case, or is that an illusion? The seller says there are no obvious signs of internal damage.

By the way, the 1600 and 1600S number 2 split bearing shells did not have tabs as the S90 split shells did.

[Brad Ripley]

Dealing with part numbers all day long, I checked my listings. Here's your list with additional part numbers in bold print. Sorry, I don't have any specs or descriptions as to what they were.
539.01.001.10

616.01.001.01
616.01.001.10
616.01.001.20
616.01.001.21

616.100.133.00
616.100.133.01
616.100.133.02
616.100.133.03

616.100.134.00
616.100.134.01

[Brett Johnson]

The Spec. Book also indicates the the Biral cylinders were first used on 356 SCs at 820641 and 811362 -- did earlier ones have Ferral?

[Vic Skirmants]

The Spec. Book also indicates the the Biral cylinders were first used on 356 SCs at 820641 and 811362 -- did earlier ones have Ferral?

I do believe those early ones used Ferral cylinders, which is why those engines had the "backward" S-90 valve clearance decals; .004" exhaust, .006" intake.

[Brett Johnson]

Precisely...

[Jacques Lefriant]

Hi Brett
one interesting note although the 539 engine never entered production the prototype engines had the mushroom lifters but used the 2 piece heads and the round 2 piece sump plate. Richard Miller documented these and other features in an article. Lots of information can be obtained by the habit of Porsche to use the part nos of the original application.
j

[Mike Horton]

Someone with one or more of the early B small pump cases can confirm whether they were machined for Super 90 main bearings, and/or the hollow dowels.

Follow-up... I've now looked at images of a few early B cases, and it appears that the non-S90 cases were not machined for S90 main bearings or hollow dowels, so those are additional S90 case differences.

Here's an early B 1600 case on eBay, casting dates 11/60, without bearing tab cutouts or hollow dowels...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NICE-CLEAN-ORI ... SweW5VNjQn
Is one lifter bore broken on this case, or is that an illusion? The seller says there are no obvious signs of internal damage.

By the way, the 1600 and 1600S number 2 split bearing shells did not have tabs as the S90 split shells did.

Yes, Brett, Jon's findings agree with three early cases I've had, a '59 N case, after the TOC Valve '58 cases, a very early 616-1, with small pump, appeared the same as the '59 N, in a car built in Sept. '59, and was an early B, and my very late '60 built, large pump N, in a coupe titled as a '61.

I agree, that one tappet bore is a bit odd, in the for sale case. Caveat Emptor !

[Jon Bunin]

Yes, Brett, Jon's findings agree with three early cases I've had...

Thanks, Mike. And Vic hasn't corrected me... yet... ;-)