Engine Picture Required

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Eric McKinley
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Engine Picture Required

#1 Post by Eric McKinley »

I am hoping someone can dig into their archive of pictures and find one for me.

I require a picture of a 356C engine with the rear tinware fitted and the stock exhaust fitted (out of the car)

I am trying to visualise the gap required above the exhaust and the tinware.

Many Thanks, Eric

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Wes Bender
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#2 Post by Wes Bender »

That would be an unusual photo because the tin is removed before the engine comes out and is reinstalled after the engine is back in. Maybe someone has their engine out and can temporarily install the tin (and maybe the exhaust too) and take a picture for you.
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.....

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Ron LaDow
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#3 Post by Ron LaDow »

muffler - tin 001.JPG
muffler - tin 001.JPG (2.63 MiB) Viewed 1585 times
muffler - tin 002.JPG
muffler - tin 002.JPG (2.56 MiB) Viewed 1585 times
Eric,
This is a (mostly) stock C. The tin is not screwed down, but it is properly located (say +/- .06", 1.5mm)\
That sleeve is the only thing handy which was easy to place and of known length: .862", ~22mm
Ron LaDow
www.precisionmatters.biz

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Eric McKinley
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#4 Post by Eric McKinley »

Ron,

Many thanks very much appreciate you taking the time to do the pictures.

Norm Miller
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#5 Post by Norm Miller »

1965 normal problem. Esp Karmann.
I've duck-tailed the rear tin, works so so.
On my car, I left both sections of the seal under the rear body panel which provides a reasonable seal.

The problem is undersized rear mounts, hard to shim or, the front mounts are too high.
Not the tin.
 

WilliamVaughan
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#6 Post by WilliamVaughan »

The 65 C relative height of engine mounted air baffle sheet metal versus height of body mounted air baffle sheet metal has been subject of significant previous talk list posts. The best posts were perhaps 2 or 3 years ago.

The C engine mounted baffle is by design approximately an inch lower than the body mounted baffle. Your transmission hoop mounted rubber isolators are not necessarily to blame.

Buy the two lip seal strip for the four cam engine and use it instead of the conventional seal strip. The lips are longer and they can likely bridge the gap.

Don't take my word for it. Look up the previous posts on supposedly droopy engines and air seal choices. Them's in the know explain that four cams engines could not be removed if the permanent body mount sheet metal was lower than it is.

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Ron LaDow
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#7 Post by Ron LaDow »

Robert Vaughan wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:11 pm The 65 C relative height of engine mounted air baffle sheet metal versus height of body mounted air baffle sheet metal has been subject of significant previous talk list posts. The best posts were perhaps 2 or 3 years ago.
The C engine mounted baffle is by design approximately an inch lower than the body mounted baffle. Your transmission hoop mounted rubber isolators are not necessarily to blame.
[...]
I didn't realize this was the issue, but you are correct. I've owned at least 6 Cs and one or two T6Bs. For reasons no one has ever convincingly explained, the factory rearranged the trans mounts and the rear engine tin gets nowhere close to normal to the body rear shelf. Brad, Bruce and the other usual suspects offer a wider seal which I've ordered as the "Euro Seal"; it helps, but you live with it.
BTW, if you do some pretty serious mods to get it to line up, you now have some really involved suspension adjustments to get the positive camber out of the rear end and adjusting the front to keep the car from looking like it's just getting to Vr.
Ron LaDow
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Doug McDonnell
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#8 Post by Doug McDonnell »

Vic Says that "C engine droop" is so the Carrera 2 engine will fit. But I believe that Eric is worried because the muffler he had custom made may sit higher. I told him until trial fit no way to know if things will fit.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Ron LaDow
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#9 Post by Ron LaDow »

Doug McDonnell wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:26 pm Vic Says that "C engine droop" is so the Carrera 2 engine will fit.
I missed that, and it could well be. I know this much (0) about 4-cams and the mounting issues.
Ron LaDow
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Martin Benade
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#10 Post by Martin Benade »

I would think a B would have the same Carerra 2 needs, but they are not known for the droop problem.
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Mike Wilson
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#11 Post by Mike Wilson »

My '63 T-6 B has the droop. I use the European rubber seal.

Mike
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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#12 Post by Vic Skirmants »

Martin Benade wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:14 am I would think a B would have the same Carerra 2 needs, but they are not known for the droop problem.
All T-6 Bs have the same droop as the C. The T-5 B does not droop.
I'm glad to see that some people did read and remember my explanation. I discovered the reason for the droop when I had to remove a Carrera 2 engine.The rear tin HAD to come out with the engine. Maybe somebody can dig out official factory body dimensions that show the change; I haven't been able to find them.

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Greg Bryan
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#13 Post by Greg Bryan »

I'm installing the longer Euro seal with the built in cant pointing up to improve the seal at the rear engine compartment tray
Greg Bryan

Geoff Fleming
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Re: Engine Picture Required

#14 Post by Geoff Fleming »

Gerry McCarthy, (RIP), graduate of the Porsche Carrera School, once told us that the engine tin on a T-6 will never mate perfectly with the rear shelf. Engine will always show a droop.

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