oil Pump for 56 (63823)
- Mark Todorovich
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:42 pm
- Tag: Drive em
- Location: St. Louis, Mo.
oil Pump for 56 (63823)
I am getting the engine rebuilt for my speedster. I am told that the oil pump is year specific and that I don't have it. I have a couple of A pump covers and gears. I am told that there is an insert into 3rd piece that holds the gears. Any one have a picture or info what I need.
Thanks
Mark
Thanks
Mark
Mark Todorovich 4243
52 Coupe
56 Speedster project now underway
63 Cab?
52 Coupe
56 Speedster project now underway
63 Cab?
- Ron LaDow
- 356 Fan
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- Location: San Francisco
Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
Mark,
I'm pretty sure that it's interchangeable with the 36HP VW part ( Melling Oil Pump Type 1 VW Beetle EMPI 31-2955 https://www.mofoco.com/category/Oil_System/c78 ), but you're going to have to confirm and then you're going to have to arrange for the tach-drive gear and cover.
Depending on who is doing your work, it just might be a VW part, a A cover and shaft and some clever mods could make you whole; the chances of finding an original are very slim.
I'm pretty sure that it's interchangeable with the 36HP VW part ( Melling Oil Pump Type 1 VW Beetle EMPI 31-2955 https://www.mofoco.com/category/Oil_System/c78 ), but you're going to have to confirm and then you're going to have to arrange for the tach-drive gear and cover.
Depending on who is doing your work, it just might be a VW part, a A cover and shaft and some clever mods could make you whole; the chances of finding an original are very slim.
Ron LaDow
www.precisionmatters.biz
www.precisionmatters.biz
- Mark Todorovich
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 482
- Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:42 pm
- Tag: Drive em
- Location: St. Louis, Mo.
Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
Ron,cool thanks for the info , I have a 36 horse in my garage, I will go look
Mark
Mark
Mark Todorovich 4243
52 Coupe
56 Speedster project now underway
63 Cab?
52 Coupe
56 Speedster project now underway
63 Cab?
- Spencer Harris
- 356 Fan
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- Location: San Joaquin Valley, California
Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
I think this may be from a tech article on this site. Not perfect but a helpful reference for VW part applicability.
Spencer Harris
San Joaquin Valley, CA.
San Joaquin Valley, CA.
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- 356 Fan
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Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
Mark,
If you have a set or several gears, Email me what they look like. Also, do you have an "A' pump cover w/the tach drive in it and show the 3rd piece's pump cavity?
Dick
If you have a set or several gears, Email me what they look like. Also, do you have an "A' pump cover w/the tach drive in it and show the 3rd piece's pump cavity?
Dick
- Harlan Halsey
- 356 Fan
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Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
The VW pump will work well. A 16 ga. wire from the coil to the electric tach-which PA Speedo can supply-will do the rest.
FYI all 911/912s have electric tachs.
FYI all 911/912s have electric tachs.
- Martin Benade
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Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
At least in America 16 ga wire is quite thick, 22 ga would be thick enough.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
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- 356 Fan
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Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
I recently did a round of 36 HP VW / Early Porsche oil pump scrounging, and it seems that while the pump bodies are the same, the lengths of the gears are different. The longer the gears, the more oil flow, so that may be something to be aware of.
- Alan Hall
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Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
I believe Erik is correct, the Porsche gears are longer and do not match the depth of the stock VW pump housing, which is shallower or the after-market VW pump housings which are generally deeper, So if you want to retain the mechanical tach drive you will need to find a Porsche pump housing, which are fairly rare, as they were only used for a couple of years. An earlier 2-pc case pump gears and housing is also not correct as they had shorter gears, which would not be good as they have less flow capability. If you are willing to give up the mechanical tach drive and convert to an electric tach, then an after market 36hp VW pump with large gears would work fine I believe, although I would check to be sure the inlet and outlet locations match.
- Vic Skirmants
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Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
Erik; if the pump bodies are the same, how can the gears differ in length? I have seen short housings with short gears, and longer housings with longer gears.
- Paul Ahnell
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Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
In Secrets of the Inner Circle, v.1.1, the Maestro posted a list of VW parts which were interchangeable w/356. the oil pump and ancillary items were not on the list. Caveat: He did say the list may not be all-inclusive. If so he would address it in v.1.2. Don't know if he got that far.
Paul Ahnell
'60 Normal Coupe
'60 Normal Coupe
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- 356 Fan
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Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
Vic: I meant that the pump housing would fit in the case. There are some old aftermarket long gear 36HP VW oil pumps out there. I had one with a spin on oil filter. It would not be too difficult to convert an early 3 Pc Porsche engine to use a VW 1600 (later) oil pump, but the studs on those are 8mm not the 6mm of the Porsche. They are on a close but slightly different center. I have done that, but it is very tricky to re-machine the 3rd piece to take M8 x 1.0 studs. Perhaps just making a new oil pump housing would be easier, and use VW gears from the common, later pump.
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- 356 Fan
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Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
Eric-The Melling M-79HU has 29mm gears and is a direct replacement for the OEM removable pump, except is has no tack takeoff. Curt
- Ron LaDow
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Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
Mark,
The shaft C/L distance is the same, as are the shaft/bore diameters. You need to confirm the inlet and outlet match (even with faulty old-fart memory, I can guarantee that one of the VW parts does match; my car had oil pressure).
The length of the gears, and to a certain extent, the length of the housing is irrelevant; they now make these things called "lathes" which can alter the length of round parts. Google introduced them last year...
The tach drive is an issue you can solve by fitting a tach-drive helical gear/shaft to the oil pump gear by which ever method is preferred by those doing your machine work. Ditto modifying an A (tach-drive) oil pump cover to fit. None of this should present much of a concern.
The final alternative is to fit an electric tach and use the VW pump cover, but I wouldn't give up getting that mechanical tach to work. If your chip-making guy finds all this a mystery, it's time to find another chip-maker.
The shaft C/L distance is the same, as are the shaft/bore diameters. You need to confirm the inlet and outlet match (even with faulty old-fart memory, I can guarantee that one of the VW parts does match; my car had oil pressure).
The length of the gears, and to a certain extent, the length of the housing is irrelevant; they now make these things called "lathes" which can alter the length of round parts. Google introduced them last year...
The tach drive is an issue you can solve by fitting a tach-drive helical gear/shaft to the oil pump gear by which ever method is preferred by those doing your machine work. Ditto modifying an A (tach-drive) oil pump cover to fit. None of this should present much of a concern.
The final alternative is to fit an electric tach and use the VW pump cover, but I wouldn't give up getting that mechanical tach to work. If your chip-making guy finds all this a mystery, it's time to find another chip-maker.
Ron LaDow
www.precisionmatters.biz
www.precisionmatters.biz
- Harlan Halsey
- 356 Fan
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Re: oil Pump for 56 (63823)
The electric tach would be (is) my first alternative. The only point of all that mechanical monkey motion is to move a small needle in the dash board. Running a greased spinning cable from the rear to the front is nuts. Even Wolfgang Denzel saw this back in the 1950s, and Porsche came aboard in 1965. Running a greased cable here in California is not too bad. But I recall the noise a cold tach cable/mechanical tach used to make before they warmed up when I lived in Boston, and the fun of getting a broken cable out of the housing. I put an electric tach in my Carrera and one in my Convertible D years ago and I defy anyone to tell the difference. I can't tell the difference.
+1 on the Melling VW pump.
+1 on the Melling VW pump.