P&C kits for engine restoration

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Alexis Collaud
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P&C kits for engine restoration

#1 Post by Alexis Collaud »

Hello,
I'm waiting for a new project very soon, and the engine will probably need to be completly rebuilt
s-l1600h small.jpg
s-l1600h small.jpg (63.9 KiB) Viewed 1960 times
I intend to do it myself and I have some question about pistons and cylinders
The engine is a 616/12 1600S , I don't know yet is it has been already opened or if it's a full original but I understand that P&C should be replaced in anycase. For info I live in France

Looking at AA perf kits (I understand tht they are a good choice), there are 4 choices from 500US to 1200 USD (biral or not, JE pistons or not). For info in Europe they are available from 650 euros to 1600 euors ...
I'm not looking for high performance but reliability and confort . What would you recommend and why ?
All kits mention that "This kit requires no machine work, when installing in factory Porsche case & heads", is that true ? I have read on the forum that some work has to be done (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45597&hilit=big+bore

There are other brand available, do you have some preference ?

As alternative (1500 Euros = 1800 USD) there is some Mahle P&C in France (https://www.rosepassion.com/fr/cat/pors ... -b/P100245)
Do you think that's a better choice ?

thank you for your good advises

Dan Epperly
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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#2 Post by Dan Epperly »

I've used the regular cheap AAs on several builds. You have to make sure the pistons are right for the heads. If they are then you don't need to Machine anything.

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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#3 Post by David Jones »

If you are looking for a reliable rebuild I would go with the 86mm big bore kit. Which one you buy will depend on which cylinder heads you have. The "C" heads can use the 30 degree pistons while the earlier heads require the 22 degree pistons. I have used many of the 86mm kits and have yet to have a problem with them. Biral or aluminum would be overkill for a reliable street engine. I would guess from the picture that you have an earlier engine than 1964 so the 22mm piston angle would be correct. What is the engine #? Look it up in the VIN/engine # data base for a date of manufacture.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
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Doug McDonnell
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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#4 Post by Doug McDonnell »

616/12 would be a 62/63 B Super Check that the heads are B- If so then a 22degree AA kit would be fine.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

Alexis Collaud
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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#5 Post by Alexis Collaud »

Thank you for your message, very clear.

The engine serial number is 704575 and is matching with the Car (1963 BT6 1600S Vin#122510)
s-l1600 small.jpg
s-l1600 small.jpg (70.33 KiB) Viewed 1870 times


I don't know yet if the head is original (B) or not. I will check when possible but I beleive that it's an orignal head then I need the 22 degrees pistons
Biral Cylinder would be better and then Kit Part#: 008 11 86PE would be my first choice

on AA perf site it's writen that engine size is 1600cc, I thought Big Bore 86mm would be 1720 cc, not clear to me. With this kit is there a increase of engine horsepower ?
Finally, do you have any other recommendation before installing and to install the Kit ? is it a real "Plug and play" or do you think I would need to send all parts to a machinist to balance and fine tune the setup ?

thank you so much for your help
alexis

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George Hussey
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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#6 Post by George Hussey »

we use the AA for builds, and have not had a problem, but for high end builds use the original Mahle.
George Hussey

Chuck Allard
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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#7 Post by Chuck Allard »

I use the AA's and right out of the box the pistons with rings and wrist pins all weigh within 1 gram. Much better quality than the old un-lamented NPRs.

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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#8 Post by Dan Epperly »

You should for sure have a competent machinists look over everything, measure and make sure any parts you are reusing are in spec.
You should also make sure that you have everything balanced, it makes for a much longer lasting engine.
If you want better performance now is the time to consider upgrading to 912 heads and the big Solexs, maybe 912 rods, 912 cam, It makes a huge difference in performance. I have two Bs, both with the big bore kits, once though has B heads and Zeniths and the other 912 heads with Solexes, there is a substantial difference in performance between the two, though the B head one with Zeniths get super mileage and feels like it will last forever,like the engine seems like it should just humming along instead of wanting to eat up the road like the other one.

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John Clarke
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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#9 Post by John Clarke »

Hi all
No one seems to have mentioned Nickies by LN engineering. Thought these were the best, but of course not cheap!
Cheers Jay
 

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Wes Bender
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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#10 Post by Wes Bender »

There are also the Shasta P&C sets that many on the forum consider to be the best of the lot.
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.....

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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#11 Post by Alexis Collaud »

I'm sure that Nickies or Shasta produce very good P&C, but thy are not available in France ...

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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#12 Post by Al Zim »

Take the engine apart carefully measure the parts carefully! This engine looks to me like an early 1600 Normal or super. Price your parts and I think you will find that it is questionable price wise to proberly restore the engine. If you have the 502 rods they will need to be replaced and the crank magnafluxed. The cam and lifters will also have to be replaced as well as sheet metal. A correct rebuild will be expensive. al zim
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Jacques Lefriant
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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#13 Post by Jacques Lefriant »

Salut
it may be well to check with Olivier Auray at Ams in Paris or Pit at JPS Aircooled. In a perfect world the best solution for what I would think your projected use would be to bore your cylinders and fit oversize pistons however things conspire against you and the optimum choice(price vs performance) may be hard to find. I congratulate you for your project I would think you do not have near the resources available to you in France that I have here in SoCal Don't be seduced by the temptation of greater power and performance stock should be good enough.
Bonne chance
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Spencer Harris
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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#14 Post by Spencer Harris »

Al Zim wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:35 am Take the engine apart carefully measure the parts carefully! This engine looks to me like an early 1600 Normal or super. Price your parts and I think you will find that it is questionable price wise to proberly restore the engine. If you have the 502 rods they will need to be replaced and the crank magnafluxed. The cam and lifters will also have to be replaced as well as sheet metal. A correct rebuild will be expensive. al zim
Just trying to understand, Al. Are you saying the 502 rods need to be replaced because of lack of availability of early rod bearings? Can't the 502 rods be notched to accept the later bearings? Is there another reason to swap out 502 rods for 616 rods?
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Re: P&C kits for engine restoration

#15 Post by Chuck Allard »

A nickname for the 502s is "spaghetti rods". Worked okay for low power low rev engines.

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