New COA, not CTC

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: New COA, not CTC

#31 Post by Doug McDonnell » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:50 pm

$500? Makes getting a Kardex a deal I think.
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Vincent Gillespie
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Re: New COA, not CTC

#32 Post by Vincent Gillespie » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:21 am

Wow $500 I can't see me paying that, thankfully it's not something we need to think about. Back in the mid '80s, when we had not long acquired our '55, we were in the Porsche Museum, it was in October so we were the only people there, and a manager came out and started chatting. We explained our interest and about the car and our plans, he was delighted, took our & the car's details, even then I could remember the chassis number and very shortly after we got back home a letter with a copy of the Kardex and some info about it arrived ! Now that's what I call a service to help keep the history of the marque and good damm good PR, not inviting owners to bring their cars to events with a cost attached to use as examples of thier longevity, the cars not the owners!! Over here we are also very lucky to have Mike Smith and Hendrik Moulds, 2 great sources of such info.

I also wouldn't be too keen on handing my car over to Porsche for anything, they simply don't/can't have the experience of the people in companies like PR Services, Zims etc 356's are what they do. Over the years, every now and again, I would contact Porsche to see if they had a part, nothing obscure like a NOS unicorn horn but mundane stuff. Only once did they have the part, 2 brake hoses still with their ATE wrapping and labels at 60% more than the ATE distributor was selling them for!

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C J Murray
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Re: New COA, not CTC

#33 Post by C J Murray » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:19 am

I am guessing here.... I suspect that Porsche was sued or threatened or that their lawyers perceived a legal liability. Maybe it is a money grab but the money can't add up to that much in the scheme of things. The Kardex availability from Porsche stopped due to privacy law issues of the first owner. I imagine that some brain dead lawyer would sue Porsche over the CoA since it sounds like it is certifying that the car in question is "authentic". Such is the state of the legal community and their lack of emphasis on personal responsibility that the guy with the big wallet is always the target.

We can't change the world but we can change the attitude of our Trustees regarding the maintenance of a 356 Registry. Other marque clubs deal with these issues successfully and learning from them can't be difficult. There are people in this club who have put great effort into collecting data on our cars only to be ignored or treated badly by the club leadership. Sad, really sad!

Is the club looking for a revenue stream? If Joe-Bag-O-Donuts and more like him are selling Kardexes for $300 each and Porsche wants much more then the club should be able to generate a little revenue by providing information. Based on what I hear about other marque clubs there must be a way to protect our club legally.

The club is called Porsche "356 Registry" so maybe somebody will get the idea that we should try to live up to the name.
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Adam Wright
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Re: New COA, not CTC

#34 Post by Adam Wright » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:42 am

After talking to a couple of dealers I've gotten the feeling that Porsche has really decided to embrace the vintage Porsches and most of the dealers are in the process of becoming "Classic Centers", meaning they are actively courting the service business of the classics. My local dealer has been sending his people for months of classic training. I think the CTC program is an extension of this. It's like a free brake check, once the car is there they can give you a list of service work it needs and then they get the business, and potentially lots of new customers who may of not taken their classic to the dealer in decades. The problem for many of the people who used the COA however is they wanted it for their project Porsche, so it borders on the absurd to drag a taken apart project car to your local dealer for a 100 point evaluation, with this being the only way to verify the original motor or gearbox. I can only imagine the cackles I would get if I brought in this "matching numbers" car, no really, it was matching numbers.
Apparently the service department is only of the real profit centers for a dealership.
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Re: New COA, not CTC

#35 Post by C J Murray » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:51 am

If Porsche thinks that their dealers will make money doing work to classic cars they will soon learn that they can't. Service is the most profitable department of a dealership but it is dependent on an active sales department that produces a steady flow of warranty work and flow of almost brand new cars that are easy for trained mechanics to beat flat rate times on. A mechanic that doesn't beat flat rate by a large margin is a liability to the shop. The overhead of operating a dealership on prime real estate does not allow for non-producers. If there were sensible flat rate manuals for a 356 it wouldn't matter because 60+ years of abuse and rust guarantees that it always takes longer. Often a restoration shop has to adjust the labor downwards because of the horrible disasters caused by the horrible conditions that they face once the job begins. There are too many unpredictable variables and even a high estimate is nowhere near high enough. So while the modern technician is billing out 125%+++ of his time in the shop the classic car technician might bill out 75% of the time he spends on working on the classics. The dealership management will not stand for that. Restoration shops can make the owner a living but the expenses must be kept low and the mechanics earn nothing close to what a dealership line mechanic earns. At the dealership every old classic problem child that is worked on distracts the limited labor supply from profitable flat rate money makers to loser rusty and broken hardware jobs.
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George Hussey
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Re: New COA, not CTC

#36 Post by George Hussey » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:15 am

too bad that they cannot keep it simple, just state how the car was originally equipped and leave it at that.
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Re: New COA, not CTC

#37 Post by Tony Proasi » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:01 pm

Not to sound negative but it seems to be a way for Porsche to put the liability on the dealer. Its my understanding that several cars were sold as being matching numbers on the COA to unsuspecting people to only find out down the road that the COA was wrong.

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Re: New COA, not CTC

#38 Post by Dan Macdonald » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:03 pm

The current Porsche company is so different than the old company. What a shame.
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Re: New COA, not CTC

#39 Post by Mike Wilson » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:15 pm

Just a note of appreciation for those that can still provide us with copies of the Kardexes. When I first acquired my car, I obtained the C.O.A. but obtaining a copy of the Kardex gave me much more information. I place a higher value on it than anything else.

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Jeffrey Leeds
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Re: New COA, not CTC

#40 Post by Jeffrey Leeds » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:31 pm

There is a big BUT to Cliff's point: The Service Manager at my preferred dealer/store has noted to me that his lead technicians enjoy the challenge, and especially the opportunity, to do work that is much more interesting than the typical R & R of parts on current products. And the store owner has been a bidder/winner at some recent name-brand auctions and the 356's he's brought back have become the SM's care. I passed along my new copy of the Technical & Restoration Guide (Vol. 2) and I may never see it again. It's become a "go-to" resource for them.
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Re: New COA, not CTC

#41 Post by C J Murray » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:32 pm

Jeffrey Leeds wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:31 pm
There is a big BUT to Cliff's point: The Service Manager at my preferred dealer/store has noted to me that his lead technicians enjoy the challenge, and especially the opportunity, to do work that is much more interesting than the typical R & R of parts on current products. And the store owner has been a bidder/winner at some recent name-brand auctions and the 356's he's brought back have become the SM's care. I passed along my new copy of the Technical & Restoration Guide (Vol. 2) and I may never see it again. It's become a "go-to" resource for them.
When they near bankruptcy they will wake up to reality. You can't pay a $40,000 + per month rent to house a repair business for classic cars. Your mechanics will also leave to get the gravy jobs at the BMW dealer where they will make close to double for each hour worked.
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'63 GS 2133 coupe
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