356 Prices

356 Porsche-related discussions and questions.
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Richard Shilling
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356 Prices

#1 Post by Richard Shilling »

I'm not in the business, just an owner of a nice '65 C Coupe. From time to time I visit e-Bay and look at 356 prices. Some are in the reasonable range some are outlandish. A B Coupe for $103,770.00, a '64 C Coupe for $129,995.00. But when I go to "Sold Listings" most 356's (Speedsters, cabriolets and Carrerras an exception), go for $70,000.00 or less. So what kind of game is it to put a really high price on e-Bay? Hoping for a sucker that just sold a Ferrari? Show it to a guy in the showroom and offer a really good price, today only? Any ideas?
Richard Shilling
1965 356C dolphingrey 

Drew Ogden
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Re: 356 Prices

#2 Post by Drew Ogden »

A few years ago, there was an early 60's VW panel van for sale on Ebay for ages, it had 23 window stickers on it. Basically a horrible panel bus with fake window stickers. I never thought much about it, just scrolled past and wondered why someone would list it or buy it. I got a call a few weeks later from friend in Texas who bought a bus "just like mine". It was a sad day...

A friend correctly told me many years ago; "there is an ass for every seat"...

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Charles H Jacobus
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Re: 356 Prices

#3 Post by Charles H Jacobus »

Richard Shilling wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:15 pm I'm not in the business, just an owner of a nice '65 C Coupe. From time to time I visit e-Bay and look at 356 prices. Some are in the reasonable range some are outlandish. A B Coupe for $103,770.00, a '64 C Coupe for $129,995.00. But when I go to "Sold Listings" most 356's (Speedsters, cabriolets and Carrerras an exception), go for $70,000.00 or less. So what kind of game is it to put a really high price on e-Bay? Hoping for a sucker that just sold a Ferrari? Show it to a guy in the showroom and offer a really good price, today only? Any ideas?
Hagarty will give you a good idea of 356 prices. Most go for level 3 pricing although there have been some that have gone for level 2. A level 3 car's definition is: "level 3 vehicles could possess some, but not all of the issues of a #4 vehicle, but they will be balanced by other factors such as a fresh paint job or a new, correct interior where applicable. #3 vehicles drive and run well, but might have some incorrect parts. These vehicles are not used for daily transportation but are ready for a long tour without excuses, and the casual passerby will not find any visual flaws. "Good" is the one word description of a #3 vehicle and they put it valued at $74,000." Level #2 vehicles could win a local or regional show. They can be former #1 vehicles that have been driven or have aged. Seasoned observers will have to look closely for flaws, but will be able to find some not seen by the general public. The paint, chrome, glass and finishes will all appear as excellent. No excessive smoke will be seen on startup, no unusual noises will emanate from the engine. The vehicle will drive as a new vehicle of its era would. The one word description for #2 vehicles is "excellent."" Level 2 vehicles are currently valued at $104,000. Values are updated quarterly. My opinion regardinglevel 2 vehicles is not only that the top and interior must be as described above, but so should the bottom.

Chuck
Last edited by Charles H Jacobus on Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike Wilson
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Re: 356 Prices

#4 Post by Mike Wilson »

I don't find eBay to be as good a gauge as Bring a Trailer. Hagerty also has a good valuation tool.

Mike
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Doug McDonnell
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Re: 356 Prices

#5 Post by Doug McDonnell »

Having helped 4 Newbies find their 1st 356 in the last 4 or so years those inflated eBay prices make me laugh. A very nice C will sell for 80K or maybe 90K most of the time. Last one was a 2 owner always garaged in Atlanta. Never wrecked, never modified 64C numbers matching. Only defects were drivers seat needed recovering and very slight hood bend that was barely visible. One respray and recent correct engine rebuild. Perfect original underside. About 83K original miles. New owner loves it and got it for under 80K. About the same general price as another previously restored Slate Grey 63 S90 bought a few months earlier. Real world prices. I would call both of these cars 2.5 per Hagerty and not far from #2 Both of these cars would have gone for more on BAT IMHO Richard your Heron Grey C will sell very well when you decide to sell it. If I ever decide to sell I will be interested in finding someone who will be a good caretaker. More important to me than top dollar.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Adam Wright
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Re: 356 Prices

#6 Post by Adam Wright »

Ebay, Hemmings, and many of the other large websites have lots of over-priced cars that are normally big dealers that take most of their cars on consignment. They approach a guy and say, "How much for your car?" he either says "it's not for sale or names a really high price" . The dealer says, "Would you sell it for XXX" . The guy says yeah! So the dealer takes the car, photographs it, and put it out there, with his markup. That's how many of these dealers always have 5 356's, 10 Ferraris, a maserati, etc. They don't own the cars, they are just filling slots, hoping someone does sell them a car. It's bait. That's why you see a shiny 356 for $125,000, when you're thinking, "That car is worth about $70,000." it's not real.
But it is annoying because people think that's the market. So when I go buy a car a guy says, "I see B Coupes all day long over $100,000" . But it's a false market. I tell them to check sold listings, it's a different world.
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Re: 356 Prices

#7 Post by Mike Ruddy »

Your post prompted me to scan UK Ebay Motors UK for the first time in a Long time. There's a paltry selection, mainly fibre glass cars purporting to be the real thing... a Speedster for 30k, brand Porsche, manufacturer Porsche. :?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-356- ... :rk:1:pf:0

The pick of the bunch is a 1974 Porsche 356A for £140k, for sale by a company that should know better.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1974-Porsche ... :rk:8:pf:0

On the whole, the market for 356 cars here in the UK appears to be slow. There are some interesting looking cars advertised by established dealers here but they've been up fo sale for two years or so.

http://borderreivers.co/portfolio/porsche-356a-rhd/

http://borderreivers.co/portfolio/1010/

I think we're at the back end of the bubble and the idea of investment cars is over.

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Mervyn Hyde
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Re: 356 Prices

#8 Post by Mervyn Hyde »

Prices of 356s seem pretty buoyant still in Australia, especially Australian delivered ones. There are not many. For example of the BT6's there were only ever 44 sold new here reportedly. The early 911 market has dropped back as the 356's have picked up. UK and SA cars also do well (see T5 below) and many of the cars here are conversions from LHD, from past years.

https://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/20 ... F145VH6B3/
Merv
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Jim Liberty
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Re: 356 Prices

#9 Post by Jim Liberty »

Exceptional cars bring prices to match, average cars bring average prices. The serge in prices have brought the drivers to market in hopes of a big score. …...Jim.
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Adam Wright
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Re: 356 Prices

#10 Post by Adam Wright »

Prices in 2018 were down about 20-30% on 356's and early 911's, 912's were worse. Here's hoping 2019 picks up some, early indications are that it is.
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Re: 356 Prices

#11 Post by Richard Emerson »

very good A’s prices easily start with a $1 in my experience

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Sean M Rooks
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Re: 356 Prices

#12 Post by Sean M Rooks »

Jim Liberty wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:01 pm Exceptional cars bring prices to match, average cars bring average prices. The serge in prices have brought the drivers to market in hopes of a big score. …...Jim.
I think Jim has nailed it. It's been a while since I've seen a really really good car (say #2+) publicly available for sale/auction.
Adam Wright wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:20 pm Prices in 2018 were down about 20-30% on 356's and early 911's, 912's were worse. Here's hoping 2019 picks up some, early indications are that it is.
Far be it from me to disagree with someone "in the business" but I'd love to see some data points for this. I.e., evidence of bonafide good cars going for 30% less in 2018 than they did in 2016 or 2014 even. Lots and lots of average cars with issues going for average money as Jim said doesn't signal a market correction to me.

Personally I wish we could go back to 2006 prices! I'd buy more of them to drive and enjoy.

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Re: 356 Prices

#13 Post by Adam Wright »

Sean M Rooks wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:30 pm
Jim Liberty wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:01 pm Exceptional cars bring prices to match, average cars bring average prices. The serge in prices have brought the drivers to market in hopes of a big score. …...Jim.
I think Jim has nailed it. It's been a while since I've seen a really really good car (say #2+) publicly available for sale/auction.
Adam Wright wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:20 pm Prices in 2018 were down about 20-30% on 356's and early 911's, 912's were worse. Here's hoping 2019 picks up some, early indications are that it is.
Far be it from me to disagree with someone "in the business" but I'd love to see some data points for this. I.e., evidence of bonafide good cars going for 30% less in 2018 than they did in 2016 or 2014 even. Lots and lots of average cars with issues going for average money as Jim said doesn't signal a market correction to me.

Personally I wish we could go back to 2006 prices! I'd buy more of them to drive and enjoy.
Maybe I should have been more specific, I meant the cars I sell are down 20-30%. Two data points from last year.
1967 911S sold for $50,000
1959 Cab sold $52,000

Both these cars would have averaged about $75,000 a few years ago.
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Jim Liberty
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Re: 356 Prices

#14 Post by Jim Liberty »

Just an additional thought, just like real estate, I have never bought a car or house to make money, only because it was where I wanted to live, or what I wanted to drive. I just buy and restore cars I really like. I spent 65 years trying to make money. Now is just for fun.

………………………………………...Jim.
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Re: 356 Prices

#15 Post by Marc Allingham »

You are all wrong! :) If anything 356s are grossly undervalued. In fact, a Bloomberg article from 2015 (Vintage Porsches Are Rising as the Next Blue Chip Classic Cars https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... assic-cars ) should give any doubters reason to rethink their convictions.

Of all of the people who sold a [classic] SL this year, 50 percent of them turned around and bought a Porsche,” said McKeel Hagerty, the CEO of Hagerty, an insurer of vintage automobiles. “Of that group, half bought a 911, and half bought a 356. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.”

Of course, year, model, type and condition are all factors. If a car has been professionally restored the cost alone could exceed $200K and that will translate to resale value. Mervyn Hyde mentioned the strong 356 market in Australia. I was in Japan not so long ago and could not find a good driver for under $90K. Most for sale were in the low $100s and some nicer cars were a lot more. Big auction houses in 2018 and 2019 continue to realize or forecast strong numbers. Hagerty's valuation tool shows all 356 models in "Excellent" condition and above well north of $100K. One thing is for certain a 356 is a great investment (one that you can drive and enjoy) and we are only a few years into a long term upward trend. So get used to higher prices folks.
Last edited by Marc Allingham on Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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