Full flow oil filtration

[Neil Schlabaugh]

Vic has a cover that retains the tack drive yet. There will be modifications to the 3rd piece, but I just wanted to point out another option.

http://356enterprises.com/engine-rebuil ... rsche-356/

[Wes Bender]

There will always be the temptation to remove the old bypass filter and some have even advocated removing it. Don't. It acts as a heat sink and helps cool the oil. If you absolutely HAVE to remove it, be sure and keep the line that went to the side of the filter can and redirect it into the crankcase. There is a restrictor hole that will keep it from bleeding off too much oil. If you DO remove the line and block it off, the oil temperature sender will only see oil at ambient temperature because there will be no oil flowing past it resulting in the gauge reading artificially low.

Ron states, above, to change the bypass filter element every time you change the full flow element. You can do that, but the bypass filter has only been filtering clean oil. I change my bypass element at every third or fourth full flow element change and it still looks clean when I remove it.

[Fred Otjen]

Does anyone know what type full flow system this one is? Spin on filter is behind left rear wheel. Who manufactured it?

[Roy Smalley]

Fred, that looks like what CE (Ray Litz....that far back) did back in the day...that sure looks familiar.....what car is that ? Ruby Speedster?

[Fred Otjen]

The system is on a 1964 SC coupe champagne yellow matching number engine. Owned by an Arizona Outlaw for some 20 years who had the engine rebuilt. Oil stays clean and clear.

[John Clarke]

Hi all
When we fitted a 912 engine in the 356 many years ago before Ron's great design, we modified the case 3rd piece and plugged the oil pump and drilled and tapped for the oil return feed to the engine from the filter.(6V Electronic Tacho) We used CSP parts, and this has worked really well using the Fram HP1 oil filters ( Mounted in L/H rear wheel arch) Shielded from rocks by a thick polycarbonate plate. The only problem has been the vibration noise we get on cold starts and on re reading Ron's article, noted that Shasta design were making a modified oil pump cover. I wondered if this was still available as it may cut down the pulses and noise on the cold starts. Our CSP cover does have a pressure relief valve but is still noisy and we nurse the engine to temperature with low revs till the noise subsides! Also another observation is that our braided oil feed and return oil lines run fairly close to the Bursch exhaust headers which you don't have the problem with Ron's system. Not sure if he can run his filter with the Bursch . Just my observations.
Regards Jay

[John Clarke]

Must add that the oil filter is mounted BEHIND the wheel arch !
Jay

[Craig Richter]

John, The oil system I devised for Speedy uses an external oil pressure relief valve, and exhibits the same "vibration" on cold start-up you are experiencing. The external valve was necessary because Speedy has, of course, a '55 case, and uses a very special VW oil pump; 70psi oil pressure was impossible to maintain with that single, tiny stock oil control valve. Lucretia is a '60, so can use one of Vic's pressure relief oil pump covers: no vibration. Never stop learning...

[Erik Thomas]

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here is a dry sump system I made for an early 3 pc engine.

The oil pump is an off road sand rail pump, and is designed for a VW 1600. The Porsche oil pump studs were carefully enlarged to M8 x 1.0, noting that the studs are not on the same centers as the early pump with 6mm studs. The pump requires a smaller crank pulley for clearance. The scavenge section draws from the standard pick up location. The only change is a drilled and tapped fitting on the 3rd piece, where oil enters the galleries from the filter/ second stage of the pump. The second stage draws oil from an 8 quart tank located on the other side of the firewall. A conventional 356 aluminium oil cooler is located in the normal location.

This engine has been though a few iterations, starting out as a Vic Skirmants build, then a change of camshafts and revised alloy barrels and pistons to raise compression at the same time as reducing overlap. This is an 1100cc engine. Gives about 100 HP at 7000.

The oil system has been trouble free, and I would suggest anyone considering an out and out race install to consider a dry sump. External oil lines exposes more risk of leak/ failure being about the only negative.

[Kevin Wills]

Full flow filtration is one of the most (if not the most) important advances for engine longevity and can be added to our cars for a few hundred bucks. In a hundred thousand plus dollar car with a $10k+ engine, if I'm driving it regularly (and I did and will continue to when the resto is complete), hands down I'm choosing full filtration over 5-10%. That said, I won't be losing points at Amelia Island because of my modern oil filter in the driver's side rear fender...and I'm more than OK with that.

[Ron LaDow]

Full flow filtration is one of the most (if not the most) important advances for engine longevity and can be added to our cars for a few hundred bucks. In a hundred thousand plus dollar car with a $10k+ engine, if I'm driving it regularly (and I did and will continue to when the resto is complete), hands down I'm choosing full filtration over 5-10%. That said, I won't be losing points at Amelia Island because of my modern oil filter in the driver's side rear fender...and I'm more than OK with that.

There is but one valid argument for straining 7% of the oil to the engine's bearings: You will lose Concourse points as a result. Any other claim is BS; no, the factory did not hope for dirty oil in the sump and spread to the bearings. The factory had no economical way to do otherwise, given '50s tech.*
I do not *know* this to be true, never having competed in that arena, but I was told by several people presenting cars at Pebble that you not only do not lose points for 'safety glass' in the windshield, but that it is required. This, of course, assumes the cars will be driven. I think there is a lesson here.
*I do often argue that the 'large pump' design was driven by the financial guys: "Who's got a design to keep us from the warrantee claims when those bearings wear out?"
Engineering staff: 'We do! We'll make that pump so big that 2 or 3mm wear won't matter."

[Harlan Halsey]

Baloney. Full flow filtering will do nothing to increase the longevity of a street driven 356 (Almost all street 356s were driven hard in autocrosses, rallies, and hill climbs, that's what the big brakes are for.) nor does it increase the longevity of a 356 race engine. More than a million air cooled VW engines and tens of thousands of 356 engines plus the teardown of hundred thousand mile 356s testify to that. Bearing failures were rare. Around 100,000 miles, valves, valve guides, piston rings and ring lands, yes, but bearing failures, no.

Race engines use full flow filtering because when they blow up they often spread large particles throughout the oil cooler circuit. The full flow filter is put at the end of that circuit to protect the next engine. The volume of the filter adds to the oil capacity which helps in cooling, except in the PM mod where the filter is close to the exhaust pipes.

A full flow system can actually be detremental, as in the recent post where fine metal particles were seen in the oil apparently due to a mismatch between an aftermarket crank and the stock bearings. With a full flow system the problem would not have been detected as early.

Before the 1950s, many cars ran non-detergent oils. All engines produce microscopic wear and combustion source particles. These particles are too small to harm the engine. The non-detergent oils deposited these particles as sludge on surfaces throughout the engine. Detergent oils are designed to hold these particles in suspension and that is what accounts for the gradual darkening of the 356 engine oil. With frequent oil changes, say every 2000 miles, sludge doesn't build up and the engine internal surfaces stay only oily. I have been watching the engine oil gradually darken between changes for some decades now. The rate at which the oil darkens is one indicator I have of the engine's continuing health. With full flow filtering this indicator would be lost, there would be additional complexity, and nothing gained.

[Vic Skirmants]

Well said, Harlan.

[Ron LaDow]

Baloney. Full flow filtering will do nothing to increase the longevity of a street driven 356 (Almost all street 356s were driven hard in autocrosses, rallies, and hill climbs, that's what the big brakes are for.)

Harlan, that is BS; no more, no less.

[Steve Hatfield]

Simon,
If hill climbing includes periodic off road excursions, I caution you to be aware of the increased susceptibility to under-chassis/ground contact brought with the oil pump plate mounted filter system. Apart from that, I run two of Ron’s setups and appreciate their benefits every time I read the dipsticks.