Full flow oil filtration

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Al Zim
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#61 Post by Al Zim »

If you would read Mr. White's article in the latest registry, it would be clear that the factory used excessive care in building their engines. Mr. White stated that some engines came our better than others because of the tolerance being better. "The better customers got the more powerful engines in their cars" the rest of us got engines that were on spot. Those engines that were low on horsepower were returned for disassembly and analyses. These engines would easily run 100,000 miles with proper service. If I was fortunate to have a new factory engine in my car and drove it 5000 miles per year I would be nearly 100 years old before I would be concerned about a rebuild. Watch "Made By Hand" and you will see the attention to measuring detail used in assembling an engine. In a previous post one of the participants suggested purchasing a set of wrenches and rebuilding it yourself. Not only should you have some experience in being a mechanic, but you should also have a full et of measuring tools to ascertain what needs to be rebuilt or replaced. No where have I ever seen anyone address the clearance necessary between the piston pin and the connecting rod bushing. That takes a $300+electric micrometer. FINALLY AND MOST IMPORTANT!! MR. GARY KOEHLER YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY REMOVE THE SCREWS THAT HOLD YOU SUMP PLATE ON AND PUT IN STUDS. IF A SCREW COMES OUR OR IS LOOSE ALL YOU WILL HAVE IS A SET OF SHEET METAL THE REST OF THE ENGINE WILL EXPLODE. al zim, Zim's Autotechnik 800.356.2964 2019/05/02
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Phil Planck
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#62 Post by Phil Planck »

Al
$300 electronic micrometer?
What's wrong with a Lufkin telescoping gauge and micrometer?
Phil Planck

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Steve Hatfield
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#63 Post by Steve Hatfield »

With max out of round limit on rods at 5 tens, a telescoping gauge won’t provide enough accuracy due to fumble withdrawal. I think a good Japanese bore gauge with a decent mic works pretty well. But I agree, $300 is a bit rich. Cylinder bores yes but
case measuring and the aforementioned rods, half a thou accuracy is a good target.
Steve Hatfield
Fort Walton Beach, FL
'63 S90 Sunroof Coupe
'06 997S Coupe

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#64 Post by Vic Skirmants »

I think it's time to start discussing religion.

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Martin Benade
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#65 Post by Martin Benade »

I thought we were already!
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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#66 Post by Vic Skirmants »

:) :) :)

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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#67 Post by Richard Emerson »

Better safe than sorry ... I have the full filters on my 356's.

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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#68 Post by Mike Horton »

I was actively working in aviation, when that industry adopted the full flow oil filter systems, and also ran an FAA approved opposed piston engine shop. I saw full flow filters, save a tear down, in an instance of a detonated forged piston, due to a partially plugged mechanical fuel injected Bonanza engine. That filter had the capacity to contain all the errant metallic particulate and save the engine. A longer flight, would likely have turned out differently. :idea: I did remove the rod bearing in the effected cylinder, and it had no contamination damage, in reality, a miracle, for that pilot/owner. Through over 5 decades, I became a true believer, in the full flow systems, observed them to extend very costly engine's lives, and are likely one of the most important advancements in piston engine life. The manufacturers, in the automotive, and aviation piston engine industries, would not incur the extra cost of adding these systems, unless they improved the performance and life expectancy, of their engines, to include added dependability. Before the advent of these full flow oil filtering systems, the factory suggested change interval, was 25 operational hours for screen equipped engines. With the full flow system, replacing het screens, that recommendation, increased the interval, to 50 hours, with no deleterious effects, and … added engine life. I always ran a spectrometric oil analysis at the first oil change, after overhaul, and the full flow equipped engines, just ran cleaner.

Yes, due to the heat backed up into the turbocharged engines, I learned to change the oil and filters, at 35 hour intervals (the point at which good pilots observed the oil consumption to increase in these hotter running engines), or, do a 25 hour oil only change, followed by another 25 hour oil, and filter change, to maintain full engine life, from those high dollar engines, … There is no free ride!

IIRC, Al, who claims to be 106 years old, suggested to change the oil in the stock engines, at 1500 mile intervals, due to the typical low usage these days. I think I got there, using the 25 hour figure, and an average of 60 mph to see the same result, and that worked pretty well. An epiphany to many new owners, is the FACT that these vintage engines, were designed, to be maintained at factory suggested intervals. Competition engines, require different demands.

I'm just now finishing an overhaul on my 1720 '62 S90 engine (with the 22* piston angle P/C), to which I've added the Pre-Mat centered full flow kit, which requires the use of the factory style "big
can" muffler. Use of any extractor, calls for use of the remote version, due to clearance issues. Some have modified the Bursch extractor exhaust, to accommodate this centered system. I have also chosen, to retain my original by-pass filter, as well, as it adds roughly an extra quart of oil, more surface area of the original can, for cooling, and filters a finer size particle, as oil passes through it. My car is not lowered, as my Wife, doesn't like the "climbing up and out". Yes, a deep sump offers some of these advantages ... but it sure hangs down. Vic does sell a "skid plate", to help protect the deep sumps.

My $.02, and no, I've never met Ron LaDow, but have installed his new sump plate with drain, and stronger magnet, his excellent pushrod tubes, and can say, without hesitation, his products are the best quality I've seen. It is sad, that some of that "jewelry", is hidden from view …, start dropping hints now, Christmas is coming,
Last edited by Mike Horton on Fri May 03, 2019 10:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Mike Horton
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#69 Post by Mike Horton »

Phil Planck wrote: Thu May 02, 2019 6:04 pm Al
$300 electronic micrometer?
What's wrong with a Lufkin telescoping gauge and micrometer?
Absolutely nothing, Phil. That (Starrett brand) is what I used for 5 decades, and familiarity with their use, becomes better the more you use them. Being fussy, I check, and recalibrate each time I use my mics. Those instruments are what I used on the engine I'm just finishing. I do set the friction on my telescoping ga. just tight enough to hold the reading, so that when I set it tilted a little, to be just larger than the bore ID, I can gently drag it over center, for a very precise reading, with light lubricated tips, and I try to get the average of at least 2, if not 3 different areas measured, being careful, of oiling holes. I've done this procedure so many times over the 5 decades, it has become second nature, for me.
Last edited by Mike Horton on Fri May 03, 2019 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#70 Post by Mike Horton »

Steve Hatfield wrote: Thu May 02, 2019 6:27 pm With max out of round limit on rods at 5 tens, a telescoping gauge won’t provide enough accuracy due to fumble withdrawal. I think a good Japanese bore gauge with a decent mic works pretty well. But I agree, $300 is a bit rich. Cylinder bores yes but
case measuring and the aforementioned rods, half a thou accuracy is a good target.
Steve, over the years, I've used both. For the center main bore on the case, the dial bore ga. sure saves time, and knuckles,
Mike

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Bill Lawless
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#71 Post by Bill Lawless »

Pardon me for going back to Full Flow Filters... :D

I have a 63 Super engine, larger oil pump, in my car that has an "Oil Bypass Plate" where the oil cooler was, and stainless, #10, hose going
up to a cooler in front of the right front tire... Can I add a Full Flow filter in the line going out to the external cooler, will it add to much
back pressure/resistance in the oil flow? And is it Full Flow in that location??

Thanks,
Bill
 Thanks,
Bill
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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#72 Post by Vic Skirmants »

You can certainly add a filter in that line. That's what we do in the race cars. The large pump could supply a big-block Chevy!
I put the filter before the cooler(s). Since a major engine failure will usually cause some of the contaminated oil to bypass the filter and get in the cooler and oil lines, I have also added a second filter before the engine. After a couple of races, checking both filters, once the second filter shows clean, I by-pass it and leave it in place. It is under the rear seat area; out of the way.

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Bill Lawless
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#73 Post by Bill Lawless »

Vic Skirmants wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 8:12 am You can certainly add a filter in that line. That's what we do in the race cars. The large pump could supply a big-block Chevy!
I put the filter before the cooler(s). Since a major engine failure will usually cause some of the contaminated oil to bypass the filter and get in the cooler and oil lines, I have also added a second filter before the engine. After a couple of races, checking both filters, once the second filter shows clean, I by-pass it and leave it in place. It is under the rear seat area; out of the way.
Thanks Vic, And that is "Full Flow"... Now to figure out which line is to the cooler and which one is back?? Guess I could measure the temp!!!
 Thanks,
Bill
65' 356 SC Cab Irish Green :D
82' SC Targa
81 VW Westfalia with 2015 Forester Engine
BMW 64'-R50/2, 75'-BMW R90/6, 74' BMW R90/6, Yamaha BW350

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Martin Benade
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#74 Post by Martin Benade »

I have that setup and I think it is said to be unfiltered when the pressure relief valve is open, meaning full filtering almost always.
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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Full flow oil filtration

#75 Post by Vic Skirmants »

Martin Benade wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 7:48 pm I have that setup and I think it is said to be unfiltered when the pressure relief valve is open, meaning full filtering almost always.
If you have the setup like I have in the race cars, the pressure relief valve is AFTER the filter and cooler. Therefore, full filtering ALWAYS.

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