Insurance claim labor rates on Porsche 356

[Sebastian Gaeta]

Erie Insurance is the company. Still working with them on this matter for the time being. I have contacted Dennis Frick who has agreed to go over the estimate with a second, and hopefully more experienced, Erie appraiser at his shop in the Harrisburg Area. If that doesn't work, I will definitely be switching insurers.

Bummer, not a classic insurer but they’re writing classic insurance, that’s the problem scenario described earlier. After this is resolved absolutely do switch your 356 to an actual classic insurance specialist. If you do you will never have to go through this again and it might even be less expensive.

The good news is Denny will no doubt do whatever he can to get this figured out for you. Tell him I said hello.

[chris romney]

Good luck getting your car repainted satisfactorily. You are on the right track in getting a more experienced adjustor. Just the fact that they are they are basing their repair estimate on a 66 911 tells you all you need to know. If you stand firm and refuse to settle until they agree to repair and repaint your car properly they will eventually cave in. If they don't, you could go after them for diminished value. I ran into a similar situation when I was rear ended about 10 years ago by someone with classic car insurance written by a non specialized insurance company. I was eventually able to get their adjustor to see things my way by educating him, but it took a lot of work. I don't understand why your insurance rather than the shop's is responsible for the claim. I would definitely switch to Hagerty after your car is repaired. I've never heard of anyone having a problem like yours when insured by them.

[Martin Benade]

Another classic car hit your classic car?

[Emil Wojcik]

Unfortunately, the issue you're having is as everyone has already suggested; your insurer isn't a classic car insurer.

Some of the large companies claim they have a classic division, yet none of them insure the same as the strictly classic insurers and one of the main differences is what you're experiencing now. Even though they've apparently told you you have Agreed Value coverage, you do not. I've heard the same issue with other mainstream insurers, defining Agreed Value differently from the classic insurers. I hope this all works out to your satisfaction.

[Sebastian Gaeta]

Emil,

Years ago my agent for all of my regular insurance (and who is a family friend) contacted me about "X Big Insurance Company" now has classic car coverage and would I be interested in looking into it. I told him about Hagerty insurance and how their program works and he was so intrigued by it that he contacted them and began offering their coverage!

[William Block]

It seems to me we are all missing the point. A shop damaged your car. It's their problem. However, they were operating out of their insured area. It's still their problem. If your (shared) insurance company does't fully cover the costs, you go after the shop.
Bill Block
Once reviews columnist and now unofficial, self-appointed registrar trying to keep the faith.
Blocks Books www.BLOCKS-BOOKS.COM
7295 Coldspring Ln. West Bloomfield, MI 48322 USA
248/672-2637 blocklab@gmail.com
1953/1952 1500N coupe #11994
1957 Super tractor #133/7622
1959/1958 1600N sunroof coupe #106072
1965/1964 356C Porsche cabriolet #161564
1966/1965 911 coupe #303269
1970 914/6 2.8 modified #9140432388
1998/1998 Silk, aka the fabulous Freda’s Boxter WPOCA2983WS621230

[Emil Wojcik]

Sebastian, my insurer does the same thing, they act as an agent for classic insurance, issuing a separate collector policy from Condon Skelly as yours does with Hagerty. But I googled Erie Insurance and they say they don't require a separate policy for classic cars, they add the car to your regular insurance policy.

[Steve Douglas]

In the Silicon Valley area labor rates are crazy, most of the "production shops" recommended by the insurance companies are using $85/hour for the basic work, up to $125 for skilled labor and most are at $145+ for work on specialty type cars and aluminum bodied Ford trucks. The few "restoration" shops are charging at least $75/hour, these are one man shops in the out lying areas (cheap rent) and considering that a good repaint will take a few months to complete you are into the 250+ hours or $18-20,000 plus paint and expendables. Then there is always the "Porsche Surprise" that is lurking, adding to the cost. How many hour is spent ordering the new new rubber parts, seals, etc. that unless the shop is familiar with 356s takes hours.
I am guessing that in the "real world" rates are different, lower insurance, and cost of living where workers can support themselves for $15/hr take home.
If the shop damaged the car they are liable to make it right, no matter what, if their insurance won't cover the costs then that is their problem and may require litigation driving the cost even higher. If they are a reputable shop dealing with high end cars they should investigate in better coverages, as should you.

[Emil Wojcik]

Although I agree with Bill and Steve saying "it's their problem" referring to the shop that did the damage, it becomes Jay's problem in that he's the one who has to fight the shop to make things right. Since the shop's insurer says it doesn't cover the damage, Jay will need to take legal action personally since he's not going to have any luck having his insurer go after theirs--they're both the same. But perhaps the shop will step up and do the right thing and cover the difference out of pocket.

Personally, I think since it sounds like Jay's saying it wasn't a show car to begin with, there's no reason an insurer would agree with a complete repaint at all under most circumstances. I'm curious as to why they've apparently agreed to do so at all. Maybe they're allowing the complete repaint by adjusting the hourly rate lower to compensate for the additional work required.

It almost sounds like the insurer is trying their best to act like a competitive classic car insurer by agreeing to a complete repaint, but then they're attempting to cheap out, unlike the classic insurers, and lower the hourly rate to make up for it. Just a guess but none of this makes sense to me.

[Mike Wilson]

I have a friend with a customer that also had to educate the adjuster on touch up vs. a full repaint. It worked out o.k. for the customer.

On another note, my 356 is insured with Hagerty ( no claims..knock on wood) but since I wanted an umbrella policy for cars, houses, etc, I also needed to have the 356 covered under AAA's classic car coverage. So, I have double coverage. But, I have heard nothing but good about Hagerty so I'm not concerned if and when I need them.

Mike

[Bob Watts]

Actually Jay, you need the Glenn Mitchell Collision Estimator:

[Tim Brillon]

Is is just me, but I don't understand why this is even going through your insurance to begin with. The shop damaged your car, they are responsible to fix it to the condition it was before they damaged it. If the shop's insurance won't cover the damage then the shop should come out of pocket for the repairs as it appears they have already admitted liability. Going through your insurance could potentially effect your premiums going forward.

[Ned Gorski]

Like Tim said
"Is is just me, but I don't understand why this is even going through your insurance to begin with. The shop damaged your car, they are responsible to fix it to the condition it was before they damaged it."
sounds to me like dirty pool.. if your insurance policy pays out on the claim good luck getting a future insurance at a non inflated rate through anyone ... i guarantee if you and the shop had different insurance companies you would not be having this conversation.. i would refuse to use my policy for something that was not my fault . talk with an attorney if needed . some thing is not right .. not your fault and you know who is at fault, your insurance should not be paying.

[Sebastian Gaeta]

.. i would refuse to use my policy for something that was not my fault .

Ned, per usual I agree with you, however some states like here in Michigan are "no fault" states where the injured party HAS to use their insurance. Insurance laws are different in every state and no matter how unfair one thinks it is, you must abide by that state's laws. Since we don't know where Jay is from, once again we are all just guessing.

[chris romney]

I believe I know Jay's car (did it come from SoCal?) and while it may not be an almost 300 point concours car, it is a very nice car. It's also metallic silver which isn't easy to blend or paint, thus the total respray. Martin, yes I was rear ended by another 356 while pulling into an event about 10 years ago. Unfortunately, it was a twin grill roadster which hit me. Fortunately, it was a low speed accident so the damage was relatively minor and both cars when repaired were as good as new.