Purchasing first 356

[Doug McDonnell]

Nothing wrong with a 912 motor. BUT car must be priced accordingly. 15-20% less than numbers matching. Ted Blakes Restorations is a very well known 356 shop in Sacramento. You want this car inspected by someone who really knows 356s. Most Porsche mechanics no nothing about 356s so make sure you have it inspected by a 356 person. There are a few members here who live in Sacramento. I know one who is doing a show car level restoration on an S90 I will PM his contact info to you. I have to wonder about the electrics on the car as the temp gauge is mid range and fuel gauge pegged with car shot off in the pictures. And since book values for an S90 are way higher than for a Super I would factor price Not from S90 values but from Super.

[Mike Wilson]

The original engine could have met a catostrophic demise and been replaced rather than rebuilt or, like mine, stolen back in the day. My car came with a C engine but now has a 912 case, heads, etc. no big deal to me but I knew what I was buying. You can research the engine number on this website.

A Pre Purchase Inspection (PP) by someone very familiar with the 356 is in order. I've seen quite a few cars that have shiny paint but have serious flaws with crappy metal work, etc., etc.

I know there are several 356 owners in the Sacramento area that are either capable of performing a competent PPI or know someone who can. It will be money well spent.

Doug's comments are spot on.

Mike

[Ron LaDow]

My question is why was the engine replaced? When and where was it replaced? Is it in fact a Super 90 engine (I know nothing about the different engines - but I am learning!?

912 engines or engine cases (with who knows what inside) were a common replacement for 356 engines when said engine expired in a way that repairing it was more expensive than replacing it with a 912 engine/case (with h-k-w-i). No, it is NOT a S90 engine; those are limited to several years of production only.

There is apparently no paperwork or documentation available for the car - another big question mark.

to many of us, that would mean a major reduction in the value of the car; ymmv.

Another thing one of our very helpful members pointed out is that the tachometer redlines from 4500s to 5000 RPM. He feels strongly that the proper tachometer for a Super 90 redlines at 5000 to 5500 RPM.

That is a tach from a Normal or possibly the car left the factory as a Normal and has kept its tach.

The car shows normal wear and tear, better shape than I expected for this car. There is an oil leak that shows build up along a front section of the pan. I have been told that this may or may not be a big deal.

There is no oil at the front of the car to leak; it is not oil.

I am having the car inspected at a well know auto repair store with excellent reviews in Sacramento on Monday and I will be present. Hopefully they can shed some light on these questions and any more they may discover. What I am afraid of is that I will come away with a satisfactory report but won't get the engine authentication, wrong tachometer, matching numbers etc.issues answered. Don't want to spend this kind of money on a 'mystery' car. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Also I have requested from the dealer to contact the owner and have him call me but no dice so far.

Harry, you are wise to get an inspection, and it should be by a 356 'guru'. But many of us here have owned and enjoyed 'non-matching-number' cars in all sorts of forms; my Speedster still has, oh, 10 or 15 parts that were on it when it left the factory. OTOH, I'm second owner of the C coupe, and there are two or three pieces on it which were not there when IT left the factory.
It's easy to love a mongrel, but if you are paying top dollar, expect a top end car. If it's a fun ride and you get a good deal, drive and enjoy the mutt.

[Harry Fahnestock]

Thank you for your replies. They are very helpful. I have an appointment at EU-Tech this coming Monday. Anyone know if these folks are knowledgeable to do an adequate inspection? The oil leak is more in the middle of the car bottom. As I recall there appears to be a joint or seam in the pan where it is. This car is not for show, I will be driving it a lot. I really don’t care if everything has matching numbers etc. just so they are the correct parts, they won’t deter the operation of the car and the body is in good shape. Also no major leaks etc. Hagerty says the car is worth $58,900 so what should I reduce that to?
Thank you
If I don’t think I can get an adequate inspection at EU - Tech I will see if dealer will give me more time for one of the people you have suggested. Will they go to the dealer or does the dealer have to take the car to them?

[Ron LaDow]

Hagerty says the car is worth $58,900 so what should I reduce that to?

Harry, does Hagerty assign a value to a car which seems to be a 63N with an engine built on a 912 case? In a condition which is still not confirmed?
That car might be worth $59K to someone who found it a good ride and a good deal to him/her, but I wouldn't use Hagerty for a valuation in this circumstance. I'd start with the inspection and a question regarding the best offer to date given the results of the inspection.
We know it is not 'numbers-matching', and regardless of any claims there seems to be nothing to suggest it left the factory as a S90, while the tach suggests it was an N. Even if it was a S90 originally, there is near zero chance of ever finding the engine (they were prone to failure) or finding documentation that it was.
So ignore any claim of 'Super 90' as irrelevant and focus on the real costs of dealing with a 356: rust. You're looking at a mongrel; make sure it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg to get the rust fixed.

[Roy Smalley]

General comments having nothing to do with this particular situation or people involved.

Unless one can throw money down the drain, a buyer should eliminate that potential. Particularly if this is your first....

Education. Yours. Know what you are purchasing or employ a trusted person to help you make informed decisions.

Inspection. Again unless you can afford a $$ mistake, even if a car seems to be a 'good deal', never purchase a vehicle without you inspecting the vehicle. Communication. No matter how specific you explain your expectations interpretation is a problem for an intermediary.

Expense. If you purchase a train wreck, expect to spend most ( a whole lot) of the money on the body. Then paint. Then disassembly, reassembly. Next comes parts and miscellaneous stuff like plating. Then interior, engine, and transmission. If the engine is a train wreck (and you don't really know how bad based on someone telling you 'it runs great, goes right back to idle), then expect big bucks. Transmissions, not so much.

S-90. The only way to know if a car was delivered with certain motor, there has to be documentation from purchase. The Cardex is apparently readily available and that should be the best document to have after original purchase documents. The COA currently is basically worthless, thanks to Porsche.

If money is not an issue, then it is ok to ignore the foregoing.

RoySmalley
www.eurowerks.com

[Harry Fahnestock]

Thanks. I just finished a complete restoration of a 38 Ford that was my wife’s 50 years ago so I know about the hidden costs etc. I can imagine the additional cost and availability of parts and labor for this model Porsche. I only want a turn key car. I’m 73 and I don’t buy green bananas or project cars! I already have my eyes on several others because I don’t think there is any way the mechanic, dealer or owner can give me the assurance I am looking for. And reducing the price by 15 to 20 percent isn’t going to change anything - it’s not the money it’s the value. Maybe I’ll be wrong.

[Harry Fahnestock]

Hagerty is not that detailed at all. They ask for brand, year, model, type and that’s about it. I just wanted some ballpark idea. NADA quoted over $100,000 so there you have it - not much!

[Edwin Ek]

Harry, a small detail. Super tachs redline from 5,000 to 5,500. Super 90 tachs redline from 5,500 to 6,000.

In any case, that car has a Normal tach.

[Vic Skirmants]

So what is the asking price?

[Doug McDonnell]

https://www.gtautolounge.com/vehicle-de ... 4dac8a926f Asking $64,999

[Wes Bender]

A bit of a clarification to Ron's comment about no oil at the front of the car. If it is on the left side it could possibly be a leak from the steering box. Not a big deal. Just a nuisance item that can be fixed with new seals. I would check to make sure the oil level in the steering box isn't too low. If in the middle it could be the brake master cylinder leaking. Also not a major problem to fix, but should be fixed before driving it many miles.

[Ron LaDow]

A bit of a clarification to Ron's comment about no oil at the front of the car. If it is on the left side it could possibly be a leak from the steering box. Not a big deal. Just a nuisance item that can be fixed with new seals.[...]

Mea culpa; THX, Wes.

[Doug McDonnell]

More likely would be a stain from brake fluid from changing brake master cylinder in that area.

[Dan Epperly]

I think I'd prefer to buy from some one on this site or an individual vs a dealer. They are capable of all sorts of shenanigans to make a sale.