Who decided the 356 Registry should quit being a registry?

[C J Murray]

How do we create a registry that is reasonably reliable for factual information? One way to qualify information would be to disclose the source. No, not to name names of people providing the information but to categorize the source of the information.

A single identical template could be developed for each 356 serial number. That data record would be the only location used to capture information on that car. By using a template of check boxes all of the specifics of of any group of cars could be analyzed to search for patterns as well as offering information on a single car.

The first section of the template should be "Porsche Sourced" data. This section would contain check boxes for every possible bit of information that is found on a CoA or Kardex. Users would be warned to leave this section blank unless they have a Porsche document in their possession. Members posting in this section should be strongly encouraged to scan the document into the serial number data record.

The next section of the template should be "Owner Sourced" data. This section could mirror the previous section but could expand to include dates of ownership, optional name and contact info, and text boxes allowing the member to log detail information very specific to that car.

Lastly there could be a section devoted to "Data Provided by Others". This is where information collected by members like Bill Block could be entered. Public information like auction results or dealer sales could be posted. Those members could choose to disclose who they are or not but as in any posting to the registry no other person's information could be posted. Always, no member is allowed to post any other person's name, location, or contact information. Any member that wants to be known publicly must post that information themselves. Every post would leave a "signature" with which rules are enforced. Only members could post or view the registry database.

Once the set-up is done the registry would almost run itself. Knowing the source of the data would very helpful also.

[David Jones]

CJ, much as I want to agree with you on it being the "English" who are difficult it should be correctly noted that it would be the "British" as there are other nationalities involved but you are correct in that it is not easy to register a car in the UK without the correct paperwork and that surely is as it should be.
However it is at least the same procedure and the same paperwork throughout the UK unlike the States where it seems to vary even in different counties within the same State.

[Emil Wojcik]

Cliff, great idea to include the source used to provide data.

[C J Murray]

David, duly noted! England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland are separate but then there are places like the Isle of Man and Isle of Wight. I have never really known what powers of government were separate and which were in the central control, aka UK. It seems like England holds the cards but I don't know. I know there was talk of a break-up over Brexit.

While we are on this subject, I was taught in school that the British Isles were not in Europe. They were separate. I have an English friend that regularly refers to England as European. Does membership in the EU mean that popular culture has changed the labels or was I just poorly educated or maybe I just wasn't a very good student.

No political opinion allowed here, just the facts.

[C J Murray]

Emil, thank you.

[David Jones]

CJ for your edification and others there are a number of islands that comprise the British isles and confusion reigns well in understanding the what's what and where's where. Just look up British Isles on Wikipedia and be prepared to be confused all the way from the Orkneys and Shetland down to Guernsey and the Channel Islands including the Isle of Sark which I think Makinac Island must be modeled after with "no cars allowed". You will be very familiar with the Isle of Man with the TT I am sure which is a Crown Dependency and the Isle of wight is actually part of the county of Hampshire in South West England. Then again I am Welsh so what the hell do I care about England.

[Mervyn Hyde]

CJ, much as I want to agree with you on it being the "English" who are difficult it should be correctly noted that it would be the "British" as there are other nationalities involved but you are correct in that it is not easy to register a car in the UK without the correct paperwork and that surely is as it should be.
However it is at least the same procedure and the same paperwork throughout the UK unlike the States where it seems to vary even in different counties within the same State.

And then there are Australian and New Zealand cars. Once, the populations of both nations were considered "British" (it helped with wartime recruitment as well). Now that is in the past thankfully. Our registration procedures are conducted at State levels and involve extensive checks of vehicles' history, ownership and inspections. There are also national databases. We still get the odd car which has a contested ownership, or was once listed as 'stolen' but later found (read here some divorce cases and property/asset distribution) and the 'stolen' note not subsequently removed from the data base.

We do maintain a voluntary Registry, through subscribed membership, of cars in the Australian 356 Registry. It is useful and some information is available to buyers, if requested. At least it was in my case.

[Eric Cherneff]

OK, time to weigh in, since I've been mentioned a number of times. Some thoughts/comments on matters previously posted, not meant to be definitive, comprehensive or anything else:

1-the database was "upgraded" approximately 5-6 years ago, and it significantly affected how the db operated, and made my job about 10x more work. For example, simply changing an owner's name or email, requires me to re-enter color and upholstery information. Another aspect of the upgrade is that some information was lost (all records for car's engines show them as not original to the car, unless I have manually fixed it). It also has less functionality than it did before.

2-as far as I know, there has never been a time when members could not add entries to the database. Unfortunately, on completing an entry, an error message appeared. Compounding that, under many/most circumstances, only the oldest record for a particular car appears when you do a search. Consequently, people would try to enter their cars again, thinking they were not accepted. Net result? A whole bunch of extra entries in the database, again increasing my workload...

3-records are not editable by members, primarily to avoid accidental data loss at best, and fraudulent activity at worst. It is great to add provenance by adding more information/history on cars, but we have to be careful and avoid the possibility of users being able to over-write existing information, even if it is no longer accurate. Also, as an example, it is very valuable to know that a car was scrapped in 1993, because when somebody tries to sell it as a fully restored car with all its original parts in 2019, they will know to possibly pay closer attention to repairs, forged numbers, etc. If a user was able to remove the 1993 record, it makes things easier for fraudsters.

4-because of (3) above, people would ask me to edit the records. Since in most cases, users could only see the earliest record, the only way I could make the amendment visible is by changing the oldest record to include all the subsequent changes made, which often were spread over many database records, and was often contradictory. A "simple" change to a record could take a long time, and my belief is that we should not be changing existing records, but merely adding new info on cars in new records (see reasoning below).

5-there are different database strategies available, and some have been mentioned previously in this thread. Having a unique record for each car has some obvious merits, but there are also challenges. For example, how do you include contradictory factory information (e.g., COA doesn't agree with Kardex, or perhaps the Reutter record). Another challenge is tracking changes - currently, for a car with lots of history, you may find one record with info from the kardex, another record showing an owner at a given point in time, another record showing it was under restoration in 2005 and another record showing it was completed in 2011, etc. A one car/one record database can handle all this, but it will be far more costly to develop, and transitioning all the existing information into it will be an extensive manual effort. As long as all the records show up in a search, it is relatively simple for the user to understand their significance and source.

6-Bill Block collected/collects lots of information. Periodically he would send me a long list of "new" data, the majority of which was just a recent sighting of a particular car. Because of how he organized it, a considerable amount of time was required to sort through it to find truly new information. After years of working through them, I gave up trying - I was not prepared to devote the amount of time needed merely to add information about a car being seen at such and such a show in the summer of 2015. I didn't make this decision lightly, and I did discuss with certain board members at the time. Another aspect of Bill's collection efforts was a high incidence of errors - information was frequently copied and pasted from other cars when he added/updated a record. This happened to one of my cars (a new record showed it had a sunroof, which was news to me), and I have heard from MANY members with similar experiences.

7-I had some contact with the programmers who did the last DB overhaul, but I think in the end they simply did not understand the purpose and role of our database, or how it was used. I will do my best to ensure it is different this time around!

8-I found out recently that my 356 Registry email account was no longer forwarding emails to my normal account. I am working through approximately 150 remaining emails, so if i have not replied to yet, I will.

9-TIME - just to give everyone an idea of the time requirements for maintaining the database: I originally brought my own database online around 2001. I provided the database framework to the Registry a few years later, and the then proceeded to convert all the existing Registry data (from a variety of sources) into the new online database. The conversion alone took in the neighborhood of 500 hours (yes, 3 months of a full time job!). Responding to an email typically takes 5-10 minutes, including updating the database. Bringing Bill Block's data into the database took upwards of 2-3 days twice per year. This stuff takes time! It would be nice if the database could be self/member managed, and I am sceptical (but open-minded!) that this is an achievable result.

10-I have opinions on how the database should be designed and run. I am open to other views, and I don't have any vested interest in how it works (other than as a member like everyone else). If someone thinks they can do the job, or would like to assist in the job, I welcome them. I would also be happy to hand it over to someone who has the dedication, time and ability to do it.

[C J Murray]

Hi Eric,
Has the redesign begun? If so what are the qualifications of the people tasked to do the redesign?

Based on what you have said about the last redesign a saying comes to mind... there is never enough time to do a job correctly but there is always time to do it over.

We need expert advice on this and thorough evaluation by qualified club representatives.

It is obvious that even a streamlined check box data entry system requires more than 1 person to maintain. If every entry to the database leaves a trail(member # required to enter?) then a policing of data entry could be utilized and that would allow entries from thousands of members. At that point the club would be responsible only for policing the accuracy of the data.
Cliff

[Vic Skirmants]

Eric; thank you for that great explanation and your dedication.

[C J Murray]

Eric; thank you for that great explanation and your dedication.

Double ditto!

[Craig Richter]

No kidding Eric, you're a real champ for undertaking all this work over the years, and with so little recognition. You, and all the Trustees, are real club heroes. It's taken 6 pages of input here to make those of us that are interested enough to read along realize just how complicated things can be. On the first page, it all sounded so simple. But I do think it's important that the 356 Registry have at least some sort of registry function to help the kids that are the future caretakers know what it is they're caretaking. Thanks again Eric, and Bill. The rest of us will be following along intently to see how things turn out.

[Jim Liberty]

Eric, thanks for the meaningful update. No one knows how much time and effort goes into any of these voluntary initiatives. I'm most appreciative of your time and expertise. All and all these computer based jobs need to be done professionally, in my opinion. Problem is there is not enough money to cover the costs.

……………………………………..Jim.

[C J Murray]

The online Trustee election is live. Vote early, vote often. This is your only opportunity to be heard.

[David Jones]

CJ, I voted, now how often should I vote? Wait a day or two or maybe a week?