Hand Throttle Knob Removal
- Rick Albro
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:57 am
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
The "S" knob or enrichment valve would have been cast in place so that would cover pre 1954 knobs... see attached for these knobs there was two or sometimes three "divots", since these had a square shaft the knobs were cast in place. This is consistent with the engineering principal to make it cheaper make it better. A round shaft would be easier to thread and screw the knob onto as opposed to casting the knob in place. This is a trivial point for this thread as the two cars of topic are newer but does give the point when the change was made.
I think that Stoddard's does have both styles of knobs in their catalogs just in case....
https://www.stoddard.com/64455282004-ivo-nla.html
https://www.stoddard.com/64455281100-ivo-nla.html
I think that Stoddard's does have both styles of knobs in their catalogs just in case....
https://www.stoddard.com/64455282004-ivo-nla.html
https://www.stoddard.com/64455281100-ivo-nla.html
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 4205
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:28 pm
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
Rick, Thanks for good word -- we've all been doing this for a long time -- you are correct. I just have not seen an early version of the assembly. The illustration of the knob in the 356A book does not show a hex on the bottom of knob; the 356B illus. does! See below. However, threads are drawn on the end shaft in both illustrations. Plus, the same knob part number is listed separately in both books.
- Attachments
-
- HandThrottle knob comps.jpg (7.03 KiB) Viewed 1056 times
- Rick Albro
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:57 am
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
Brad it is Friday and your word is gold! Hopefully Dan has the information he needs to complete his tasks.
- Paul Ahnell
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 504
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:18 pm
- Tag: What?
- Location: Lyme, CT
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
Small potatoes, but in the following article: https://porsche356registry.org/article/88 the arrow identifying the Throttle Control on BT5s and T6s is incorrectly pointing to the headlight switch (for T5s anyway). The Throttle Control is the knob to the left of the tachometer on BT5s. I would guess it's also the same on T6s but can't remember as I gave up my '63 20+ years ago.
Paul Ahnell
'60 Normal Coupe
'60 Normal Coupe
- David Jones
- Classifieds Moderator
- Posts: 7323
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:32 pm
- Tag: I wish I knew as much as I think I know.
- Location: Kentucky
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
Paul, my immediate reaction was that there is no hand throttle on T6 cars but I went and looked in my "C" drivers manual and under hand throttle in the index it refers to page 36 but lo there is no mention of a hand throttle on that page. There is also no hand throttle listed under the picture index for instruments and controls on page 33.
I believe that the T5 cars had a hand throttle but it was dropped on the T6. I will be happy to be corrected if my belief is erroneous
I believe that the T5 cars had a hand throttle but it was dropped on the T6. I will be happy to be corrected if my belief is erroneous
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:48 pm
- Location: New Hampshire
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
From the FAQ:
https://porsche356registry.org/article/88
When were hand throttles discontinued?
Charlie White — While going through some recently acquired 356 literature, I found a "Sales Department Circular Letter", #62/4 dated September 14, 1962, which states:
"Beginning with chassis number
Karmann Coupe 211.430 Reutter Coupe 121.500 Reutter Cabriolet 157.200
the hand throttle has been omitted from our cars."
According to Brett Johnson — the parts manual says that they were discontinued at Reutter coupe 121501, Karmann coupe 211430 and cabriolet 157201 (late 1962 calendar year).
Dick Weiss reports that according to the 'B' supplement parts book, section 3/1A, page 4 and dated VIII 9/64, the bearing plate #6 (and associated components, he assumes) for the hand throttle was no longer installed from these T6 356B chassis numbers; Reutter coupe 121501, Karmann coupe 211430, and Cabriolet 157201.
Those numbers are all after T6 "twin grill" Roadster production ended, so they should have come with hand throttles.
Jim at EASY states: "Actually, most T6Bs have hand throttles. They were discontinued with the advent of 356C. There are no changes to a 356C engine that makes them less in need of a hand throttle."
"Tony Aguirre" reports that his 1963 Karmann coupe #211208 has a hand throttle; "Tom356c" writes " My 1964 sunroof coupe # 128894 has a hand throttle" and Tom Farnam believes that "the T-6 Roadsters were all built with hand throttles." Bill Cooper says that his 1963 Karmann coupe #211589 has no hand throttle. Alex D. Mestas states that his Karmann Coupe 211259 with a COA date of 08/01/62 has a hand throttle. Barry Lee Brisco owned 1964 Reutter coupe 126966 which had no hand throttle. Stuart Zeh notes that "My 63 Carrera 2 doesn't have a hand throttle." Roy Smalley reports that 1963 S-90 coupes 210016 and 213914 both had hand trottles from when they were new.
[Ed: as you can see, there is some confusion about when the hand throttle was discontinued, but the Porsche factory sources quoted above seem to confirm that the change was made late in the 1963 356B model year (even if the B supplement parts book doesn't agree exactly with the "Sales Department Circular Letter" from September 1962). However, it is certainly possible that dealers or owners could have installed them after that time.]
https://porsche356registry.org/article/88
When were hand throttles discontinued?
Charlie White — While going through some recently acquired 356 literature, I found a "Sales Department Circular Letter", #62/4 dated September 14, 1962, which states:
"Beginning with chassis number
Karmann Coupe 211.430 Reutter Coupe 121.500 Reutter Cabriolet 157.200
the hand throttle has been omitted from our cars."
According to Brett Johnson — the parts manual says that they were discontinued at Reutter coupe 121501, Karmann coupe 211430 and cabriolet 157201 (late 1962 calendar year).
Dick Weiss reports that according to the 'B' supplement parts book, section 3/1A, page 4 and dated VIII 9/64, the bearing plate #6 (and associated components, he assumes) for the hand throttle was no longer installed from these T6 356B chassis numbers; Reutter coupe 121501, Karmann coupe 211430, and Cabriolet 157201.
Those numbers are all after T6 "twin grill" Roadster production ended, so they should have come with hand throttles.
Jim at EASY states: "Actually, most T6Bs have hand throttles. They were discontinued with the advent of 356C. There are no changes to a 356C engine that makes them less in need of a hand throttle."
"Tony Aguirre" reports that his 1963 Karmann coupe #211208 has a hand throttle; "Tom356c" writes " My 1964 sunroof coupe # 128894 has a hand throttle" and Tom Farnam believes that "the T-6 Roadsters were all built with hand throttles." Bill Cooper says that his 1963 Karmann coupe #211589 has no hand throttle. Alex D. Mestas states that his Karmann Coupe 211259 with a COA date of 08/01/62 has a hand throttle. Barry Lee Brisco owned 1964 Reutter coupe 126966 which had no hand throttle. Stuart Zeh notes that "My 63 Carrera 2 doesn't have a hand throttle." Roy Smalley reports that 1963 S-90 coupes 210016 and 213914 both had hand trottles from when they were new.
[Ed: as you can see, there is some confusion about when the hand throttle was discontinued, but the Porsche factory sources quoted above seem to confirm that the change was made late in the 1963 356B model year (even if the B supplement parts book doesn't agree exactly with the "Sales Department Circular Letter" from September 1962). However, it is certainly possible that dealers or owners could have installed them after that time.]
1963 B T6 Project
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
For What It Is Worth - All of the throttle knobs I have seen had an insert molded into the knob and all of the shafts were threaded for the knob. To remove the knob place the shaft in a vise with the knob facing down, then apply penetrating oil on the knob/shaft and let it soak in. Reapply after waiting 20 minutes. Then try to carefully unscrew the knob using what ever tricks you have, i.e. use a sheet of rubber material to gain extra gripping on the knob. If it will not come off you will need to sacrifice the knob, use a Dremmel tool with cut off wheel, cut two groves on two sides of the knob until the insert is exposed and can be removed. Then obtain another standard, medium size knob and drill a hole in the center slightly smaller than the insert. Work the insert into the knob, making sure it is positioned to the correct depth and glue (Miracle Glue) the shaft into the knob. Note, the early shafts did not have a nut, examine the bezel for a small area which will, or will not, accommodate the nut. so that the knob is flush with the bezel and nut is not exposed.
Dr. Knobs
Dr. Knobs
- Mike Wilson
- Classifieds Monitor
- Posts: 11492
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:37 pm
- Location: SW Los Angeles
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
To add on, I just disassembled a hand throttle cable from a '59 coupe. The original knob had a small hex nut on the bottom. I placed the shaft in a vise as Scott advised and using a wrench, unscrewed the knob.
Mike
Mike
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
- Jim Clement
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1461
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:46 am
- Tag: 1957 356 A Coupe
- Location: Calgary Alberta
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
from Vin 59021,. so early 1957 car
so.. yes this was a bear to get out..
you have to disconnect it at the floor level, so disconnect from the lever device to the right of the gas pedal.
then bring it up and through the hole in the dash.
the challenge that i had was I could not figure out how to dissemble the mechanism to re plate the bezel.. I did not figure out how to do that...
so.. yes this was a bear to get out..
you have to disconnect it at the floor level, so disconnect from the lever device to the right of the gas pedal.
then bring it up and through the hole in the dash.
the challenge that i had was I could not figure out how to dissemble the mechanism to re plate the bezel.. I did not figure out how to do that...
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:48 pm
- Location: New Hampshire
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
From the FAQ:
https://porsche356registry.org/article/88
How do you remove and re-chrome the hand throttle bezel?
Tom Scott — Talk to your chrome plater and ask if he can plate the bezel while it is attached to the bowden covering. If he can't, or won't, carefully cut the bezel tube where it joins the bowden using a Dremel or similar. After the bezel is plated re-attach it to the bowden using a Mig welder using very small welding beads. Not exactly factory original but close enough since there are no new replacements available.
Bruce Baker — The chrome end can be taken off the cable sleeve easily by drilling the depressions/"dimples" on the 'neck' and relieving the swaging. It is a mechanical interference joint and you need only a very small drill bit. Twist it and pull it apart. The most important thing for the plater to be careful of is the inner spring wire and the clearances inside the bezel/integral mechanism so reassembly and operation is back to 'normal,' (whatever that was) upon reassembly. While apart, check, clean and lube the wire and tube. Wirebrush everything...threads and ends. Use appropriate electrical shrink tubing to cover the sleeve if needed while apart, too (gouges, scuff-throughs, etc). I use some superglue and a dab of epoxy to hold the two pieces together (rechromed end and sleeve) and haven't had one come apart yet.
Or buy a new one at Sierra Madre for $300!!!
http://www.sierramadrecollection.com/Ha ... 32231.html
https://porsche356registry.org/article/88
How do you remove and re-chrome the hand throttle bezel?
Tom Scott — Talk to your chrome plater and ask if he can plate the bezel while it is attached to the bowden covering. If he can't, or won't, carefully cut the bezel tube where it joins the bowden using a Dremel or similar. After the bezel is plated re-attach it to the bowden using a Mig welder using very small welding beads. Not exactly factory original but close enough since there are no new replacements available.
Bruce Baker — The chrome end can be taken off the cable sleeve easily by drilling the depressions/"dimples" on the 'neck' and relieving the swaging. It is a mechanical interference joint and you need only a very small drill bit. Twist it and pull it apart. The most important thing for the plater to be careful of is the inner spring wire and the clearances inside the bezel/integral mechanism so reassembly and operation is back to 'normal,' (whatever that was) upon reassembly. While apart, check, clean and lube the wire and tube. Wirebrush everything...threads and ends. Use appropriate electrical shrink tubing to cover the sleeve if needed while apart, too (gouges, scuff-throughs, etc). I use some superglue and a dab of epoxy to hold the two pieces together (rechromed end and sleeve) and haven't had one come apart yet.
Or buy a new one at Sierra Madre for $300!!!
http://www.sierramadrecollection.com/Ha ... 32231.html
1963 B T6 Project
- Jon Schmid
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1797
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:32 pm
- Location: La Mirada, CA
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
Paul, I guess you are referring to T-5 cabs and coupes. My 1960 Roadster has two vertical knobs to the right of the ignition switch (of course on the right). Top knob lights, bottom knob hand throttle. BTW I wish I had an HT setup on my 1964 coupe.PaulAhnell wrote:Small potatoes, but in the following article: https://porsche356registry.org/article/88 the arrow identifying the Throttle Control on BT5s and T6s is incorrectly pointing to the headlight switch (for T5s anyway). The Throttle Control is the knob to the left of the tachometer on BT5s. I would guess it's also the same on T6s but can't remember as I gave up my '63 20+ years ago.
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:46 pm
- Location: Missouri
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
Not sure if anyone still needs to do this but i disassembled 2 today. Each done differently. I would recommend using a drummer tool and cut left to right (or right to left if that suits you better). Not laterally (around the sweeping). Once sliced, i was able to separate the sides with a small screwdriver and a hammer. Once open, the cable end twisted out.
- Attachments
-
- 979EED50-D46E-4C64-A638-7B2467F49F27.jpeg (2.62 MiB) Viewed 506 times
-
- A2F9C49E-ED7C-4910-A763-B7491EB3F5F9.jpeg (2.65 MiB) Viewed 506 times
-
- 0B5F294D-564A-47F1-925F-F5FAF12617BF.jpeg (2.79 MiB) Viewed 506 times
-
- E77A99AB-3F72-4E92-A160-1FBA544161F8.jpeg (2.88 MiB) Viewed 506 times
-
- 7EC3C832-DB60-40C6-9D91-58A70B65593D.jpeg (2.63 MiB) Viewed 506 times
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:15 pm
- Location: coos bay oregon
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
Mine a 58 has the hex nut and did unscrew. i painted the knob along with all the interior parts, other knobs, steering wheel, steering column, and so on. at that time i removed the escutcheon and had it rechromed. this required the drilling of 3 very small spot welds or crimp marks, then i just glued it back on JB weld if i remember correctly. Jay D.
jay darlington
- Rick Albro
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:57 am
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
While the delicate surgery is impressive and clearly possible has anyone tried to insert a drill bit into the cable housing to support the inside volume while stretching the metal with a small ball peen hammer enough to remove the cable housing from the sheath/guide? By not cutting the guide you would be able to re-crimp the parts after repair and plating. even if you damaged the cable housing the cable housing can be readily replaced... the guide is a little more effort... saving the hardest to replace part would seem like a easier path to restoring the part...
- John Clarke
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 2115
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:38 am
- Location: East Sussex, England
- Contact:
Re: Hand Throttle Knob Removal
Hi All
Just to add to the confusion and debate, Our 2 litre Bristol has a functioning hand throttle ( As well as an advance and retard knob !)
I find it a very useful feature which I use on every cold start {it does also have a choke} for the triple Webers but prefer to not use the over rich mixture with the Choke, and wash the bores clean!
Now our 61 T5B Coupe (115030) has the Hand throttle Knob and cable, but it is disconnected. Don't know what the reason for so many hand throttle removals
( and also Porsche themselves deleting them later ) Did they jam on or open ? I haven't looked to see where it connects.
Is it complicated?
Cheers jay
Just to add to the confusion and debate, Our 2 litre Bristol has a functioning hand throttle ( As well as an advance and retard knob !)
I find it a very useful feature which I use on every cold start {it does also have a choke} for the triple Webers but prefer to not use the over rich mixture with the Choke, and wash the bores clean!
Now our 61 T5B Coupe (115030) has the Hand throttle Knob and cable, but it is disconnected. Don't know what the reason for so many hand throttle removals
( and also Porsche themselves deleting them later ) Did they jam on or open ? I haven't looked to see where it connects.
Is it complicated?
Cheers jay