Slump plate article in the Mag

[Neil Bardsley]

Just got the Mag in London. Very nice article on upgrading the slump plate magnetic and flow in the mag. One of the first technical article that I thought I would have a go at that. The only thing is where to get the suction cap thing from? What size diameter is the pipe and what would the proper name for, the suction cap, it be so I can google it?

[Gary Koehler]

Hi Neil,
I couldn’t find a suction bell in the correct size to fit in the sump and slip over the oil intake pipe OD, so I made one. Tested several shapes and settled on this one. The i.d. slips over either your 14 or 16mm pickup tube depending on which one you have. The length should place the bell close to the magnetic collector surface as shown in the article.
The OD is 1 1/8” and has a full 1/4” radius blending to the inside diameter.

Be careful with tools working near the magnets- they are very strong...

[Wes Bender]

Because of the non-ferrous metals in the engine that would pass right by any magnetic trap, I still prefer the full flow filter.

It's a good article nevertheless. I only have one question. At one point, oil flow through the pump (and engine I would assume) of 10 gallons per minute was used in the calculations. Somehow I can't imagine that much oil flow through even a old worn out engine...... Granted, the pump could put out that much at 2000 pump rpm, but it would be working against a lot of resistance in the bearings, orifices, etc.

But, then again, maybe 10 gpm isn't too high. Ron, do you have flow numbers from your full flow filter research?

[Gary Koehler]

Wes,
Consider the swept area of the cylinders by the piston rings, mostly @ medium to high rpms - all steel and iron particles that certainly generate more metallic particles, dwarfing any other contaminants due to the huge area involved. I don’t believe anything else comes close as far as total particles are concerned. And how many of those particles pass through a 20 micron filter? A lot I’d bet. Even worse with a bypass. The magnetic collector plate casts a large, wide and deep net, 24/7, and with the motor shut down. Don’t see a f/f/f doing that.

[Ron LaDow]

Because of the non-ferrous metals in the engine that would pass right by any magnetic trap, I still prefer the full flow filter.

Any magnet arrangement is no substitute for a full flow filter; trapping ferrous particles is necessary, but not sufficient.

But, then again, maybe 10 gpm isn't too high. Ron, do you have flow numbers from your full flow filter research?

Yes, I do.
It turns out to be pretty easy to do a geometric analysis of the pump (two gears, each delivering 1/2 of the geometric 'tube' of the teeth, divided by the 1/2 crank/cam speed = 1/2 of 'tube' of the teeth volume per crank R.). After calcing that, a couple of other folks chimed in with more than one formulae, all of which were all within 10% or so of that derived number.
Regardless, it is a very big number, and it is my theory that the factory got tired of spending warrantee money fixing tired motors and simply stuck a pump on the thing large enough that when the un-filtered crap ate the bearings, the pump was STILL strong enough to give you pressure: ~9.5Qts/min at 1K RPM was the minimum of all the calcs. 2+ gal/min at 1K crank speed! Holy cow!
But it didn't provide that to the bearings when new: An analysis of the (spec'd, "new") total engine clearances yields a total "clearance" (bearing exhaust 'port', if you will) of ~.209 total area. The bypass valve is handling most of the output in a fresh engine.
Now, let's look at filtration:
Regardless of the particle composition, most all (high quality) full flow filter elements filter to ~10 microns. It is certainly possible to 'weave' an element which would filter to ~1 micron, and engine wear would be reduced by something well off the tail of the bell curve. But reducing the weave to a .1 micron passage means that the filter plugs much more quickly, opening the 'by-pass' (in every full flow element) now providing un-filtered oil to the bearings. This is self-evident in that modern engines use 10-micron filter elements and live with minimal bearing wear well beyond 100,000 miles. We do not have an un-compromised choice; we can filter to near zero and deliver no (or dirty) oil, or we can chose an acceptable value. We're lucky; those kind folks who have spent hundreds of hours on the dyno inform us whether that was their desire or not.
Remember "diatomaceous earth"? Pretty sure it filtered 7% of the oil at 1 micron, and the 50 micron crap went right to the bearings.
There are more than enough snake-oil sales-guys willing to sell you filters which will either filter near none of your oil or will plug instantly, but if they didn't do that, your engine would last forever: http://www.ecomicrofilters.com/whareclpacs.html

[Neil Bardsley]

Hi Neil,
I couldn’t find a suction bell in the correct size to fit in the sump and slip over the oil intake pipe OD, so I made one. Tested several shapes and settled on this one. The i.d. slips over either your 14 or 16mm pickup tube depending on which one you have. The length should place the bell close to the magnetic collector surface as shown in the article.
The OD is 1 1/8” and has a full 1/4” radius blending to the inside diameter.

Be careful with tools working near the magnets- they are very strong...

Thank you. This is silly question but are the magnets strong enough to affect the cam/push rod etc.

I agree that this isn't probably as good as full flow filter but probably requires 1/10 of the work?

[Wes Bender]

Wes,
Consider the swept area of the cylinders by the piston rings, mostly @ medium to high rpms - all steel and iron particles that certainly generate more metallic particles, dwarfing any other contaminants due to the huge area involved. I don’t believe anything else comes close as far as total particles are concerned. And how many of those particles pass through a 20 micron filter? A lot I’d bet. Even worse with a bypass. The magnetic collector plate casts a large, wide and deep net, 24/7, and with the motor shut down. Don’t see a f/f/f doing that.

I agree, with an engine operating normally. However, when something goes wrong in the engine you're going to get a lot of gold and silver appearing particles that, in Harry's words, "are fool's gold baby!"

I'm not saying the extra magnetic capability isn't a good thing. I'm just saying that it isn't the end-all cure when an engine has a problem. See Ron's reply above.

[Gary Koehler]

“but are the magnets strong enough to affect the cam/push rod etc.
I agree that this isn't probably as good as full flow filter but probably requires 1/10 of the work?

Niel,
You questioned the magnetic effect on components; I don’t believe that it’s an issue, but the magnetic field extends over 8” into the motor. This is an iPhone with a magnetic pole sensing app attached to a wooden ruler. It senses the magnetic polarity at 8-1/2” from the collector plate surface.

If you don’t have a full flow filter yet, this is a good addition but I would use both. That’s my approach.

[Chuck Allard]

Now imagine the oil and potential particles frothing around at some thousands of RPM. Will everything stick to the magnet????? Get a full flow filtering system.

[Gary Koehler]

Now imagine the oil and potential particles frothing around at some thousands of RPM. Will everything stick to the magnet????? Get a full flow filtering system.

I already use one, to replace the bypass filter. This is meant to replace the sump magnet and improve the oil pickup capability. As I said earlier this is not meant to replace a full flow filter; instead to improve on the remaining part of the original design.

[Al Zim]

My suggestion is to use a full flow filter and ron's is probably as good as it gets. I would purchase a new steel sump plate and gasket. Install it without a screen use a washer under the 6 MM nut and tighten the nut to 10 ft lbs. Drain the oil through the drain plug and when replacing the plug put some Teflon tape on the threads and tighten till is is snug with a short wrench. Without blue printing the main and rod bearing clearances (No 502 Rods) you have stolen a good part of the engines life. al zim