BaT Ivory - Red 1963 S90 Coupe Kardex vs. Actual - Question
- C J Murray
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 9234
- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:24 pm
- Location: 30MI WEST OF PHILA
- Contact:
BaT Ivory - Red 1963 S90 Coupe Kardex vs. Actual - Question
This car is quite "honest" although the door jam rust tells me it will be an expensive nightmare to restore.
My question to the experts with German language skills is, does the Kardex indicate leather seats? The COA does not but the car obviously has its original red leather seats with driver side leather headrest(also not on COA).
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963- ... -90-coupe/
My question to the experts with German language skills is, does the Kardex indicate leather seats? The COA does not but the car obviously has its original red leather seats with driver side leather headrest(also not on COA).
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963- ... -90-coupe/
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
- Mike Wilson
- Classifieds Monitor
- Posts: 11636
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:37 pm
- Location: SW Los Angeles
Re: BaT Ivory - Red 1963 S90 Coupe Kardex vs. Actual - Quest
Leder = leather. Kunstl = leatherette.
Mike
Mike
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
- C J Murray
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 9234
- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:24 pm
- Location: 30MI WEST OF PHILA
- Contact:
Re: BaT Ivory - Red 1963 S90 Coupe Kardex vs. Actual - Quest
I guess the seats could have come from another car but they are unmistakable as well worn factory leather.
Opinions?
Opinions?
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
- Doug McDonnell
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 6084
- Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Augusta,Michigan
Re: BaT Ivory - Red 1963 S90 Coupe Kardex vs. Actual - Quest
Is there a part of that car that isn't well worn?
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.
- C J Murray
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 9234
- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:24 pm
- Location: 30MI WEST OF PHILA
- Contact:
Re: BaT Ivory - Red 1963 S90 Coupe Kardex vs. Actual - Quest
LOL!Doug McDonnell wrote:Is there a part of that car that isn't well worn?
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
- Doug McDonnell
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 6084
- Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Augusta,Michigan
Re: BaT Ivory - Red 1963 S90 Coupe Kardex vs. Actual - Quest
Your thoughts on the Dyno sheet CJ? Seems low power for an S90. I know Vic calls them S85 but looks like about 72 HP
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.
- C J Murray
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 9234
- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:24 pm
- Location: 30MI WEST OF PHILA
- Contact:
Re: BaT Ivory - Red 1963 S90 Coupe Kardex vs. Actual - Quest
The dyno sheet is not very exciting. It is from a DynoJet so I feel comfortable passing judgement because I also use a DynoJet and they are quite uniform from location to location.
Below is a before and after test of my old S90 that I bought as a freshly restored car with a fresh engine from a known rebuilder. That engine went from 70hp to 87hp @ the rear wheels. There were many new parts found but there were also some errors, the biggest of which was 30* pistons in a 22* chamber. There are many ways to miss the mark and 72hp in the BaT car is poor.
Remember that there is a loss of 15% to the rear wheels so the 72 is closer to 85 at the crank. 87 is around 102 at the crank.
Below is a before and after test of my old S90 that I bought as a freshly restored car with a fresh engine from a known rebuilder. That engine went from 70hp to 87hp @ the rear wheels. There were many new parts found but there were also some errors, the biggest of which was 30* pistons in a 22* chamber. There are many ways to miss the mark and 72hp in the BaT car is poor.
Remember that there is a loss of 15% to the rear wheels so the 72 is closer to 85 at the crank. 87 is around 102 at the crank.
Last edited by C J Murray on Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
- Doug McDonnell
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 6084
- Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Augusta,Michigan
Re: BaT Ivory - Red 1963 S90 Coupe Kardex vs. Actual - Quest
90 DIN=102 SAE so your's wasn't bad.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.
- C J Murray
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 9234
- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:24 pm
- Location: 30MI WEST OF PHILA
- Contact:
Re: BaT Ivory - Red 1963 S90 Coupe Kardex vs. Actual - Quest
Today's SAE is about equal with DIN. You are right that SAE was inflated back when the cars were built. In 1967 my 911S was advertised at 160DIN and 180SAE but today SAE would be 160. By using 1720cc cylinders and being very precise you should get more than 90 at the crank from a S90. That engine used a stock cam, I think. That was before I realized that so many of our suppliers sell the wrong cam as stock. On a street motor I used to only worry about positioning the lobe centers so I didn't notice the incorrect duration. The 15% loss to the wheels is what I think is the most accurate guess but there are differences of opinion on that.
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
- C J Murray
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 9234
- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:24 pm
- Location: 30MI WEST OF PHILA
- Contact:
Re: BaT Ivory - Red 1963 S90 Coupe Kardex vs. Actual - Quest
The shocker in my graph is how the same motor shows such poor performance when mistakes are made. 24% is BIG!
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
- John Lindstrom
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 336
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:51 am
- Location: Stanford, Ca. USA
Re: BaT Ivory - Red 1963 S90 Coupe Kardex vs. Actual - Quest
I wish my 59 put out 75 ponies...