1960 T5 Cab question

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TomDoherty
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1960 T5 Cab question

#1 Post by TomDoherty » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:12 pm

I'm looking at a 1960 T5 Cabriolet with a hard top to possibly purchase. A couple questions.......
Long time 40+ year owner says the car only came with a hard top, no soft top was included. It appears the attachments needed for a soft top are there. Were these sold this way? What would it take to also add the soft top functionality? Would I even want to do that?
When opening the front boot, I noticed the pull knob was chrome with a lock. My friends '60 Roadster doesn't have a lock, my '65 doesn't have one, was this an option?
The car is numbers matching, the engine just had a 5 star rebuild and a big bore kit was installed. Is this a detraction or a plus?

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#2 Post by Doug McDonnell » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:42 pm

Yes Cabs came with hard top only. Yes locking hood pull was an option. Rebuild and numbers matching is a plus. Quality of rebuild including parts used matters more than 1720 kit which could be cheaper AA or more expensive kit.
Last edited by Doug McDonnell on Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1965 356C There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Mike Wilson
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#3 Post by Mike Wilson » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:43 pm

The attachment points for a hard vs. soft top are essentially the same.

I think the open cars came with a locking hood pull and was an option for coupes. It is possible they were changed out by previous owners.

I have a friend with a T-6 cab that we switch off between hard and soft tops depending upon the season.

Mike
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#4 Post by jim nelson » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:26 pm

Locking hood pull standard on cabs. There is a difference between hard top and soft top rear interior panels, the hard top panels were longer. Like Mike says, the attachment points were pretty much the same. If you have a transmission lock, it’s chrome, the only year for that and seriously hard to find.

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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#5 Post by Brad Ripley » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:53 am

From 356A T-2 thru T5 they had a model called "Hardtop" which was a Cabriolet without the soft top but with a removable hard top -- reference sales brochures dated 4.60 and 3.61. (Mercedes did the same "model extension" into the 230SL.) Too bad there are so many 356 Cabrios needing a soft top! Hence the current demand for reproduction soft top frames see https://www.stoddard.com/64456100502-nla.html

AFAIK, Cabrios from the early days had hood locks. Slightly the same for 911/912 Targa and on Karmann Ghia's. I do not believe the lock was an option.

Big Bore p/c makes no difference in value. However, often, if there are internal aftermarket items, then it's likely to be Weber carbs, funny air cleaners, etc. to affect value. Exterior stuff can be changed; it's the matching engine number to determine value, up or down.

I've never seen a chrome trans lock; always black over brass. BTW, early T-5 cars (before chassis #153023) did not have a trans lock.

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Jim Liberty
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#6 Post by Jim Liberty » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:47 pm

I have a pair of correct rear side covers. Come by my shop and they are yours. .............................Jim.
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Steve Kram
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#7 Post by Steve Kram » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:14 pm

Early T5 cars came with an optional trans lock. It is smaller (and chromed) than the later B and C trans lock.
DerWhites has pictures.

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Jim Alton
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#8 Post by Jim Alton » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:21 pm

This might help with the conversion.
Porsche_Broch_Frt.jpg
Porsche_Broch_IFC.jpg
Porsche_Broch_p1.jpg
Porsche_Broch_p2.jpg
Porsche_Broch_p3.jpg
Porsche_Broch_p4.jpg
Porsche_Broch_p5.jpg
Porsche_Broch_p6.jpg
Porsche_Broch_p7.jpg
Porsche_Broch_p8.jpg
 
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#9 Post by Jim Alton » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:22 pm

Porsche_Broch_Rear.jpg
I downloaded these a while ago and lost track of the link. Somebody deserves the credit for scanning them.
 
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Jim Alton
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#10 Post by Jim Alton » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:42 pm

Jim Liberty wrote:I have a pair of correct rear side covers. Come by my shop and they are yours. .............................Jim.
I think those are the only cabriolet soft top parts that aren't being reproduced. Snap them up if you're building a soft top.

The bad news, I think building a new soft top with all the nice reproduction parts will cost about $10,000 including the upholstery work.

Personally, I don't see why anyone would want a detachable hardtop today (although I know one guy who always had one on his 356C Cab before he tried to knock down a tree). Back when these cars were daily drivers it made sense to have a hardtop for the winter and a soft top for the summer. Now that the cars seldom go out if there's a hint of salt on the road a soft top makes much more sense.

-----------------------------------

The locking front lid was introduced for cabriolets in 1959--my '58 cabriolet doesn't have one. I've heard it's a VW part, hence there's 644.511.073.21 to adapt it to the contours of the 356 footwell.

The '60-'65 PET says 644.511.060.21 "Lock with 2 secondary keys" came with "ROADSTER, CABRIO, HARDTOP" so I'd expect it to be on the Roadster, but stuff happens.
 
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Spencer Harris
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#11 Post by Spencer Harris » Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:23 pm

Jim Alton wrote:
Porsche_Broch_Rear.jpg
I downloaded these a while ago and lost track of the link. Somebody deserves the credit for scanning them.
'58 and '60 brochures are on the research and identification Registry site. Freddy Rabbatt made the scans:
https://porsche356registry.org/article/220, though the '60 booklet photos seem to have disappeared?

Charlie White has a typically informative essay on hardtop/cabs on his site:
http://derwhites356literature.com/356Po ... dtops.html

I'm pretty sure Trevor Marshall http://www.356panels.com/index.html told me he had patterns for A and later upper interior panels or wheel housing covers if you can't make it to Jim's shop in Orange Co. Wow, what a generous offer from Mr. Liberty! I shipped Trevor my original '53 interior panels to replicate, so he now has those as well.

Max Handley recently had a convertible top made for his '59 hardtop/cabriolet. I'll email him and ask him to join the conversation. Tony Garcia made the top for him and the photos looked stunning!

Hope you document the process Tom, and share photos with us!
Spencer Harris
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#12 Post by Adam Wright » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:42 pm

This was a Hardtop only cab from new, one owner.
Attachments
1.jpg
3.jpg
14.jpg
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#13 Post by TomDoherty » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:29 pm

Brad - to clarify, the chrome lock was for the hood, I didn't even notice the trans lock as when I bent down to pull the hood knob, I noticed it was totally different than my '65 SC.
Jim, thanks so much for the pics! I will use them if I proceed down this road. I asked when the top was off and was told it was probably when the car was repainted 15 years ago.
Adam, in your pic #3, that's what I'm seeing in the back, a hanging metal piece that looks like it should be connected o something....perhaps a soft top part if it was there.

Considering the costs involved if I were to proceed with this, I'm not sure I would try to also make the car a soft top option as well. Your either going to drive when it's dry or possibly wet.

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Jim Alton
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab question

#14 Post by Jim Alton » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:55 pm

As long as we're beating the hardtop/cabriolet subject to death, here are scans of the M&M 131 "Racy Elegance" brochure introducing the hardtop:
MM_131_Front_Cover.jpg
Front Cover
MM_131_Page_06.jpg
Page 6
MM_131_Page_07.jpg
Page 7
The brochure's dated "W21e/57 - 9.57 II. Aufl. 1958"

Here's an August 1958 Porsche price list
1958_Price_list.jpg
and, a 1958 "grey market" price list:
PLAutoEurope58.JPG
 
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Re: 1960 T5 Cab Removable Hard Top

#15 Post by Paul Giganti » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:56 pm

My '59 came with only a removable hard top, no soft top. I'm out in California where we're not even sure it will ever rain again, so "weather" is not much of an issue if you only have a soft top. I was lucky to find a complete soft top frame several years ago for $750. Seems their value has appreciated quite a bit since then! I have not installed it on the car because I don't have the fabric cover yet and, once again, in California it's hardly ever necessary to even put up the soft top. However, without the soft top installed and folded down, the car looks even more like a bathtub! I used to have a really BIG dog. He'd ride in the back on top of the folded rear seats. His head must have stuck up a good four feet into the breeze. He loved it!

I looked into selling my removable hard top, but have been told by others on this forum that they are next to worthless. I'd hoped the sale would finance the cloth top I need for my open frame, but no such luck. One owner responded with a photo of FIVE of them stacked like potato chips in his garage.

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