Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 724
- Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:40 pm
- Location: Texas
Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
Is it possible to use steel tubing instead of the ring fitting and banjo bolt in the rear calipers ?
Enclosed is a picture of what I mean.
Or why are the ring fitting and banjo bolt needed?
Enclosed is a picture of what I mean.
Or why are the ring fitting and banjo bolt needed?
- Ron LaDow
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 8100
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:45 am
- Location: San Francisco
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
Well, the drilling and threading for metal brake lines are designed for use with the upset end of the tubing; that's how it seals. The banjo fitting seals with crush washers.
I doubt the former will seal in the caliper housing.
I doubt the former will seal in the caliper housing.
Ron LaDow
www.precisionmatters.biz
www.precisionmatters.biz
- Curt Dansby
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 462
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:50 am
- Location: Charlotte, NC
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
Ron is 100% correct. Look at he machined face on the caliper body that corresponds to the crush washer interface. For the direct connection coupling you show there would need to be a female receiver for a flare fitting interface in the caliper which is not there. I think you could prove this pretty easily by putting some compressed air at the open end of your brake line and feeling the air leakage at the caliper threaded connection.
Curt
Curt
- Ron LaDow
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 8100
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:45 am
- Location: San Francisco
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
Curt, I think we are both more technical and detailed than the reply needs, so here:
1) A brake metal tube needs to seal in a female 'socket' designed for that use; no other threaded hole will do.
2) A banjo fitting needs to seal 'crushing' washers on both sides of the 'banjo' on to machined surfaces; no other threaded hole will do.
Never the twain shall meet.
1) A brake metal tube needs to seal in a female 'socket' designed for that use; no other threaded hole will do.
2) A banjo fitting needs to seal 'crushing' washers on both sides of the 'banjo' on to machined surfaces; no other threaded hole will do.
Never the twain shall meet.
Ron LaDow
www.precisionmatters.biz
www.precisionmatters.biz
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 724
- Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:40 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
Ron and Curt,
Thank you for your answers.
Thank you for your answers.
- Brian R Adams
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 3346
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:34 pm
- Location: N. Nevada
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
Ron, where may one obtain the crush washers for a brake banjo fitting? (In my case, a fitting for the short connector pipe between the front brake cylinders. I don't find them at our usual sources.)Ron LaDow wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 1:06 am Curt, I think we are both more technical and detailed than the reply needs, so here:
1) A brake metal tube needs to seal in a female 'socket' designed for that use; no other threaded hole will do.
2) A banjo fitting needs to seal 'crushing' washers on both sides of the 'banjo' on to machined surfaces; no other threaded hole will do.
Never the twain shall meet.
Brian
Welcome to the era of policy-based evidence-making.
Difficile est saturam non scribere (Juvenal)
Difficile est saturam non scribere (Juvenal)
- Brian R Adams
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 3346
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:34 pm
- Location: N. Nevada
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
Update: I found the copper crush washer 900.123.005.020 at several 356/912 parts sources. Stoddard/NLA, my first stop, doesn't have that part number, so I figured they might be rare.
Welcome to the era of policy-based evidence-making.
Difficile est saturam non scribere (Juvenal)
Difficile est saturam non scribere (Juvenal)
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 4184
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:54 am
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
Notice that there are 2-sizes of the copper crush washers required;
12x16 900 123 005 20 (outer) & 10x16 900 123 004 20 (inner)
12x16 900 123 005 20 (outer) & 10x16 900 123 004 20 (inner)
- Jacques Lefriant
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 4668
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:50 pm
- Location: Washoe county NV
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
Hi Hugo
911s delete the banjo bolt in the rear. your caliper probably has the provision for the double flange meatal line but it maybe deeper than normal so you might have to use a longer hollow bolt on the metal line. or machine the seating surface to allow the metal line to seal. I am not recommending this action but answering the theoretical question.
j
911s delete the banjo bolt in the rear. your caliper probably has the provision for the double flange meatal line but it maybe deeper than normal so you might have to use a longer hollow bolt on the metal line. or machine the seating surface to allow the metal line to seal. I am not recommending this action but answering the theoretical question.
j
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern MA
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
You might consider BelMetric: belmetric.com
They are happy to deal in small batch orders. https://www.belmetric.com/drain-plugs-a ... -c-11.html
They are happy to deal in small batch orders. https://www.belmetric.com/drain-plugs-a ... -c-11.html
< Jeff >
Registry Member Since 1978
1963 356B T-6 Super 90 Coupe
2009 997.2 Carrera S
2015 958 Cayenne diesel-1 & 2015 958 Cayenne diesel-2
Registry Member Since 1978
1963 356B T-6 Super 90 Coupe
2009 997.2 Carrera S
2015 958 Cayenne diesel-1 & 2015 958 Cayenne diesel-2
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 446
- Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:42 am
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
regarding the two sizes of SOFT Copper seal washers: Are you sure Stoddard doesn't have them? I believe I just bought them from Stoddard for the 912. Those banjo fittings are standardized and used over many years.
- Martin Benade
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 12392
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:52 am
- Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
I am not familiar with the 911 but it may either have an adapter with a ring seal that the brake line screws into, or a brake line made to fit the hole, sealed with a copper washer. Or the way Jacques said, he knows way more than me. Several ways to accomplish this.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 669
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:02 am
- Location: Washington DC Area
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
Macmaster-Carr has both of those size copper washers.
- Vic Skirmants
- Registry Hall of Fame
- Posts: 9304
- Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:02 pm
- Location: SE Michigan
- Contact:
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
I get them from Stoddard's. No problem.
- Brian R Adams
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 3346
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:34 pm
- Location: N. Nevada
Re: Ring Fitting, Banjo Bolt, Calipers
Yes, Stoddard has them. I looked at NLA and they didn't list them, so I assumed Stoddard (same company) would not. Brad Ripley contacted me, pointing me to Stoddard's washer page. He said they would add this item to NLA's page soon.Robert Vaughan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:33 pm regarding the two sizes of SOFT Copper seal washers: Are you sure Stoddard doesn't have them? I believe I just bought them from Stoddard for the 912. Those banjo fittings are standardized and used over many years.
Here are several washers. The ones I am interested in for drum brake cylinders are #13 and #15 on the drum brake cylinder drawing:
Washers:
https://www.stoddard.com/catalogsearch/ ... 900-123-00
Drawings:
https://www.stoddard.com/porsche-356/br ... -356b.html
Brian
Welcome to the era of policy-based evidence-making.
Difficile est saturam non scribere (Juvenal)
Difficile est saturam non scribere (Juvenal)