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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 7:44 pm 
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David Jones wrote:
More power to you Mike. I am one of those weirdos that have absolutely no desire to own a speedster. I still think to this day it is an ugly car with the top up and the minimalist design left me cold, especially in spring and fall. I prefer my "A" cabrio for comfort even if it does not handle on the level of the equivalent model year speedster but nowadays handling is not something I seek in a vintage car. I do however have a set of door vin plates off a defunct speedster so if I change my mind and feel the need to build a speedster I will give you a call.
Like Doug I remember the days of RD in Michigan and spending about a week calling Bill every day but never getting hold of him but as I was in the area I went by there and a lady in the "complex" new how to get him and I was able to buy the parts I wanted but it was a nightmare dealing with him. We should all be very thankful to Mike for taking the risk and enabling such a reliable source of supply for parts.

We should all be thankful for Mike too for having the daring he has for some of his larger projects like this one. Or his Hood adventure, the set-up on that must have cost thousands, but now anyone who needs a hood doesn't have to hunt one down, they can just buy a brand new one. Mike is making big investments in order to supply us with the parts we need, we should thank him buy ordering when we need something.

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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:11 pm 
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Can some of the contortionists tell me what constitutes a fake Speedster?

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'57 Speedster - very real
'59 Sunroof - mostly real
'60 Devin D Race Car-in process - fake chassis - real body
'63 GS 2133 coupe - very real
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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:11 pm 
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CJ that would be a speedster that was made in a location that was not called Stuttgart in West Germany, and was also made from galvanized steel sheet not stamped out by a die in West Germany? Would that not qualify as fake or a replica?

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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:00 am 
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CJ Like the new Avatar !
Regarding the post. Metal is metal, Our cars would not exist or survive if we could only use steel with a Porsche number on it.
It doesn't make it a 'fake' Speedster.
Jay

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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:26 am 
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C J Murray wrote:
I don't like restorations of badly rusted cars either.


Cliff, Didn't you have a new frame made for your Devin D Race Car because the old one was rusted? I think you should, upon principle give it to me?

Mike, Good luck with the project. I must admit a recreation isn't for me but many will benefit from the project. If I was to buy a modern speedster I would buy a boxster :)


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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:45 am 
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"Cliff, Didn't you have a new frame made for your Devin D Race Car because the old one was rusted? I think you should, upon principle give it to me?"
Touche!, Cliff.

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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:58 am 
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neilbardsley wrote:
Cliff, Didn't you have a new frame made for your Devin D Race Car because the old one was rusted? I think you should, upon principle give it to me?
Yes but I did use Canadian steel! Seriously, the 2"x4" tubing is stamped "made in Canada". This should be a clue to the next owner that it is a replica frame. I did retain the original body though, fiberglass!

I did actually pass on modifying my first Devin D for racing because it was too nice so I sold it to 356er Harry Cooper who is restoring it to a concours quality street car. At least one is saved.

This frame could not be saved...
Attachment:
IMG_3751.jpg
IMG_3751.jpg [ 145.07 KiB | Viewed 424 times ]

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'57 Speedster - very real
'59 Sunroof - mostly real
'60 Devin D Race Car-in process - fake chassis - real body
'63 GS 2133 coupe - very real
'67 S Original Owner - ultra real


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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:11 am 
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Vic Skirmants wrote:
"Cliff, Didn't you have a new frame made for your Devin D Race Car because the old one was rusted? I think you should, upon principle give it to me?"
Touche!, Cliff.
It still has way more original parts than the replica Speedster.

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'57 Speedster - very real
'59 Sunroof - mostly real
'60 Devin D Race Car-in process - fake chassis - real body
'63 GS 2133 coupe - very real
'67 S Original Owner - ultra real


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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:25 am 
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Cliff, thank you for using Canadian steel. Why Canadian steel?
so most of the steel on your Devon is new. all of the steel on our replica/recreation is new also. much better quality.
steel is steel. not really. Chinese steel is different than NA steel in many ways. I am sure most of you have seen and felt the difference in Chinese cardboard, it is just not the same, same goes for Chinese steel. There is a reason Chinese products are cheaper, and its not just the labor, you get what you pay for. Not to knock Chinese products in general, because their are very decent parts that are made by them available to us.

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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:38 am 
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OK, you guys that like replicas, which not a Speedster would you buy? The one that will eventually rust, is expensive to fix, has no mechanical design improvements, OR, the one with a lightweight no rust fiberglass/carbon fiber body, chrome moly frame with modern design suspension?

Neil and I choose the used Boxster.

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'57 Speedster - very real
'59 Sunroof - mostly real
'60 Devin D Race Car-in process - fake chassis - real body
'63 GS 2133 coupe - very real
'67 S Original Owner - ultra real


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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:50 am 
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Mike DeJonge wrote:
Why Canadian steel?
My frame builder had some problems finding 2"x4" tubing from his suppliers. We really just took what we could get.

About China...His main business is building dirt car frames and he says he is competing with Chinese made frames that are quite cheap. He also repairs frames since crashes are the norm in dirt racing. The Chinese frames often cant be repaired due to their use of poor materials.

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'57 Speedster - very real
'59 Sunroof - mostly real
'60 Devin D Race Car-in process - fake chassis - real body
'63 GS 2133 coupe - very real
'67 S Original Owner - ultra real


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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:02 pm 
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What ever happened to the subject of this thread?

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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:10 pm 
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Brad Ripley wrote:
What ever happened to the subject of this thread?

good point

Brad, what do you think about "Speedsters" that have not one square inch of original bodywork?

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'57 Speedster - very real
'59 Sunroof - mostly real
'60 Devin D Race Car-in process - fake chassis - real body
'63 GS 2133 coupe - very real
'67 S Original Owner - ultra real


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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:12 pm 
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I was afraid you would ask that! Strict legal questions aside, I would say .......

My "IF" statement would be: IF, I had a (1) badly crashed and rusty Speedster, with (2) the chassis number intact and with (3) a correct title document, then I would have no problem with one of Mike's bodies; it would be the same car as listed on the tile with a new body. The only option would be to weld in the chassis number panel or not. It would be exactly the same as in olden times when we would order a new body in white from Porsche to replace a crashed 911; the original chassis number went onto the new body -- nothing wrong with that.

The naysayers "BUT" statements would be: BUT, it's still a kit car that looks like a real Speedster. Others will say, it may be a new body, BUT it's not made of old German steel and wasn't built in the Black Forest by Hartmut or Hans. BUT, wouldn't you be deceiving the next owner into thinking it's an original car?

We've all seen Speedsters with complete new pans, most of the upper body replaced, all new interior, new engine and on and on; owners called their restored cars "better than new".

Comments please.

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 Post subject: Re: chassis mockup
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:34 pm 
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If I could have a replica body that exactly duplicated every detail, including fit and rigidity, it truely would be the equal of an original one, and should drive exactly the same too. The only difference would arise in talking about it, not driving it. A person who is in love with provenance wouldn't like it at all. A person who loves cars wouldn't care one bit.

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