Odd steering play
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:08 pm
- Location: London
Odd steering play
I have a RHD 1965 356SC, apparently one of the last 100 or so built as 12 volt and with a rare teardrop tank. It may be the last SC registered new in the UK. It was a barn find and I've had it completely rebuilt from the ground up by a renowned UK 356 specialist. They did a great job. You can see the pictures here...
https://www.rogerbrayrestoration.com/po ... -rhd-1965/
Over the last year since it's been rebuilt I've done 6,000 fairly problem free mileage. Over the winter I brought it back to the team that restored it for a service and some little tweaks dating back to the restoration.
One of the tweaks was to the steering. It steered very well, but the steering wheel was ever so slightly off center. When I picked it up after the service the steering wheel was correctly centered. I then found that on full left lock the wheel moved by an extra half an inch at the end of full lock when pulled hard against the stop and stayed that extra half inch off center when driving straight ahead. The wheel does not feel at all loose - it stays fixed off center unless I do full lock to the other side. On full right lock it moved the other way and again stayed that extra half inch off center when straight ahead, but the other direction this time. The steering box was rebuilt during the restoration and I've had the pinch bolts on the rubber coupler checked and they are tight.
Has anybody got any ideas on what this could be?
Any advice gratefully received
Jim
https://www.rogerbrayrestoration.com/po ... -rhd-1965/
Over the last year since it's been rebuilt I've done 6,000 fairly problem free mileage. Over the winter I brought it back to the team that restored it for a service and some little tweaks dating back to the restoration.
One of the tweaks was to the steering. It steered very well, but the steering wheel was ever so slightly off center. When I picked it up after the service the steering wheel was correctly centered. I then found that on full left lock the wheel moved by an extra half an inch at the end of full lock when pulled hard against the stop and stayed that extra half inch off center when driving straight ahead. The wheel does not feel at all loose - it stays fixed off center unless I do full lock to the other side. On full right lock it moved the other way and again stayed that extra half inch off center when straight ahead, but the other direction this time. The steering box was rebuilt during the restoration and I've had the pinch bolts on the rubber coupler checked and they are tight.
Has anybody got any ideas on what this could be?
Any advice gratefully received
Jim
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 449
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:38 pm
- Location: Near Stroud, Gloucestershire, UK
- Contact:
Re: Odd steering play
It’ll be where the column clamps to the coupling or between the coupling and the box. Those bolts need to be very tight.
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:08 pm
- Location: London
Re: Odd steering play
Thanks Ashley,
I thought that as well. The people who restored it for me suggested the same over the phone, as they are some distance from where I live.
A local garage put it up on the ramp and checked it for me. They bolts you describe were very tight. Although the local garage is a normal modern car garage they also had a look over the steering and couldn't find anything loose.
Jim
I thought that as well. The people who restored it for me suggested the same over the phone, as they are some distance from where I live.
A local garage put it up on the ramp and checked it for me. They bolts you describe were very tight. Although the local garage is a normal modern car garage they also had a look over the steering and couldn't find anything loose.
Jim
- Doug McDonnell
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 6081
- Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Augusta,Michigan
Re: Odd steering play
Have the shop look at each joint while you reproduce the movement. Or mark each joint with a washable marker and then check yourself.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:55 pm
- Location: Rhode Island
Re: Odd steering play
Jim:
I bet that someone gave in to the temptation to violate the ZF steering box adjustment procedure. I bet they centered the steering wheel by adjusting tire rods, not by setting the steering wheel to the chisel mark on the steering box, clamping the steering wheel at center, then bringing the front wheels to alignment. Now, one side is not the same as the other. It is also possible your steering box is loose on the axle beam.. moving a bit.
I bet that someone gave in to the temptation to violate the ZF steering box adjustment procedure. I bet they centered the steering wheel by adjusting tire rods, not by setting the steering wheel to the chisel mark on the steering box, clamping the steering wheel at center, then bringing the front wheels to alignment. Now, one side is not the same as the other. It is also possible your steering box is loose on the axle beam.. moving a bit.
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1981
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:50 pm
- Location: Union, New Jersey
Re: Odd steering play
It may be that the steering 'off center' was corrected by someone removing the steering wheel and replacing it on the shaft in what looks like a correct position. This is absolutely wrong and is a cosmetic fix only.
The steering box must be centered and the tie rods adjusted, ( after first setting correct toe-in!), in order to bring the steering to true center at the ZF box. When re-centering the steering, the steering shaft has to be aligned with the chisel mark, ( and/or actual pointer on later cars). Now the steering wheel is replaced on the shaft and at this point, never removed. All further adjustments are made via the tie rods. The steering should have 1+ 1/2 turns to either side with steering damper attached.
If the wheel drops off to the left during driving, BOTH tie rods must be equally adusted a bit TO the left. Likewise, if the steering wheel tends to show a right drop, both rods are adjusted TO the right. The toe-in should remain at spec...approx. 1/8" toe-in...never toed outward.
As other posters mention...check that the box is firmly mounted, the damper is secure, etc.
The steering box must be centered and the tie rods adjusted, ( after first setting correct toe-in!), in order to bring the steering to true center at the ZF box. When re-centering the steering, the steering shaft has to be aligned with the chisel mark, ( and/or actual pointer on later cars). Now the steering wheel is replaced on the shaft and at this point, never removed. All further adjustments are made via the tie rods. The steering should have 1+ 1/2 turns to either side with steering damper attached.
If the wheel drops off to the left during driving, BOTH tie rods must be equally adusted a bit TO the left. Likewise, if the steering wheel tends to show a right drop, both rods are adjusted TO the right. The toe-in should remain at spec...approx. 1/8" toe-in...never toed outward.
As other posters mention...check that the box is firmly mounted, the damper is secure, etc.
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:55 pm
- Location: Rhode Island
Re: Odd steering play
I was looking though the restoration photos at the website, that was one extensive rebuild. Never seen a fuel tank like that before.
I did notice a small cardboard box parked on the roof of the freshly painted 356 in one of the pictures. That would be immediate cause for dismissal in my shop. In 1979 I had just finished painting my MGB-GT and my girlfriend at the time dragged a case of Molson ale across the roof making scratches. They are still there. She ditched me soon after, and every time I see the scratches I cringe.
I did notice a small cardboard box parked on the roof of the freshly painted 356 in one of the pictures. That would be immediate cause for dismissal in my shop. In 1979 I had just finished painting my MGB-GT and my girlfriend at the time dragged a case of Molson ale across the roof making scratches. They are still there. She ditched me soon after, and every time I see the scratches I cringe.
- Harlan Halsey
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 2370
- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:05 pm
- Location: No Cal SF Peninsula
Re: Odd steering play
Erik: Although Katey Molson was married to Stirling Moss, I think a Canadian ale is a bit of a stretch. If you stick with Watneys, your English cars should be OK. Fortunately there are a lot of German beers available even in California, which we use to lubricate our work on our 356s.
Harlan
Harlan
- Vic Skirmants
- Registry Hall of Fame
- Posts: 9300
- Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:02 pm
- Location: SE Michigan
- Contact:
Re: Odd steering play
Geoff and Erik; great advice. BUT it still sounds like a loose clamp. Doug; good advice to mark all connections; something is moving.
- Martin Benade
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 12345
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:52 am
- Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Odd steering play
I believe it should have play at the ends of the travel, but only loose bolts will allow the center point to vary at different times.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 4184
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:54 am
Re: Odd steering play
Going further; Make sure the steering box is properly adjusted for the steering wheel's minimum rotation after the tie rods were adjusted to the dead-ahead position. If you have a later Boge damper on the steering assembly, it'll have a shorter stroke on 1-side if installed w/o removing the U-clamp on the torsion tube which gives a slightly larger circle. The expensive Koni's stroke is correct.
Also, there are 3-bolts on the front backing plates and the forward one is really a 'stop bolt' and there are several lengths listed to limit overtravel.
Also, there are 3-bolts on the front backing plates and the forward one is really a 'stop bolt' and there are several lengths listed to limit overtravel.
- John Hearn
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 629
- Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:26 am
- Tag: Porsche is a two sylable word!
- Location: Colchester, Great Britain
Re: Odd steering play
+ 1 on the box on the roof.
KTF
John
KTF
John
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:08 pm
- Location: London
Re: Odd steering play - the problem is now fixed
Thanks for all your input guys.
It turned out that the "squeeze" bolt between the shaft and the coupler had stretched or was not tight enough. Despite instruction my local garage with a ramp could not tighten it!
I sent it back to Roger Bray Restorations who replaced the splined shaft with a new one, as the splines had worn by this time, and the bolt.
Problem solved.
Thanks for your input.
It's my first time to use the forum for advice. I'll definitely be back for more.
Jim
It turned out that the "squeeze" bolt between the shaft and the coupler had stretched or was not tight enough. Despite instruction my local garage with a ramp could not tighten it!
I sent it back to Roger Bray Restorations who replaced the splined shaft with a new one, as the splines had worn by this time, and the bolt.
Problem solved.
Thanks for your input.
It's my first time to use the forum for advice. I'll definitely be back for more.
Jim
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 449
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:38 pm
- Location: Near Stroud, Gloucestershire, UK
- Contact:
Re: Odd steering play
I hope you enjoy the car and use it for relaxed touring as much as anything. I now wish I’d rebuilt mine from scratch instead of doing everything backwards. We fixed all the obvious faults, then we stripped it out and found a few pin holes in the original front floors, so they were replaced, but we ignored a few external blisters and fitted new leather interior.
I had the same steering wheel problem as you after the box had been rebuilt and once that was fixed I clock up quite a few miles and gained confidence with the car. And then I bashed it and decided to have a total body restoration, which would have been far better done before the interior.
Luckily it is extremely sound with only minor issues in the usual places, but the chaps redoing it are incredibly thorough and going to the ends of the earth to stop rust for the future.
The point of my ramble is that I hope you develop as much affection for the little cars as I have.
I had the same steering wheel problem as you after the box had been rebuilt and once that was fixed I clock up quite a few miles and gained confidence with the car. And then I bashed it and decided to have a total body restoration, which would have been far better done before the interior.
Luckily it is extremely sound with only minor issues in the usual places, but the chaps redoing it are incredibly thorough and going to the ends of the earth to stop rust for the future.
The point of my ramble is that I hope you develop as much affection for the little cars as I have.