Do it yourself all four wheel brake job-advice appreciated

[Paul Giganti]

I've undertaken to do my own brake job on my 356B coup. I'm doing all four wheels with new cylinders, shoes, springs, retainers, washers, etc., and rebuild the master cylinder as well. I have just finished the two rear wheels, and I must admit, even though I'm fairly handy with tools and have a vast collection of handtools to choose from, replacing the shoes and springs, and greasing the bearings, was quite a job. Those springs especially were quite frustrating and difficult to get on and off. I'm SURE there were better ways to get all those parts back in the right order and place, but the manuals I have are pretty brief.

So tomorrow I start the front wheels! Certainly I'll use the lessons I learned on the back wheels, but I thought that some of you might have some advice on ways to dissemble/assemble the front wheel brake parts that you learned from personal experience (other than take it to a shop). Just thought I'd ask since what seems like it should be simple (and probably is if done a certain way), is rarely simple the first time you do it.

Thanks in advance.

[Martin Benade]

I start with large unworn Vice-Grips to get the return springs off. Then preferably the proper tool for the shoe retainers, although tough fingers or gentle plier-work can suffice. If you remain with a single system, are you sure you don't want at least a new master cylinder?

[Emil Wojcik]

Also make sure you replace all four flexible rubber hoses. After a few years, no matter how new they appear, they swell internally resulting in an inability for the fluid to fully release the pressure pushing the pistons. This can create enough heat to completely and catastrophically destroy the seals, without warning.

[Mike Wilson]

And grease the slide plates on the backing plates where the shoes make contact.

Mike

[John Brooks]

Paul

Take pictures of what it looked like first. Get some FLARENUT wrenches before you start on the hoses, clean with a wire tooth brush all the fittings and attachments, espically where hard Lines enter the hose fittings, and the horseshoe spring clips at line/hose end. A drop or two of penetration oil on each fitting. Most of my emergency repair trips have been for twisted or broken hard lines. The nut threads brakes free from the hose, but rust and dirt between the nut and line bind the hardline, it twists with the nut

Watch the hard line as you loosen the FLARENUT, don't twist the metal tube with the nut. If it try's to turn, clean again, and some penetration oil, or automatic transmission fluid. Two wrenches, one on the hose and another on the flarenut, tighten and loosen (wiggle) a little at a time until it's free.

Honing the cylinders is pretty stright forward. Look for pits at the bottom center of the bore. Be sure to remove and clean and lube the star adjusters.

Front flex hoses are easy to mess up. Banjo bolt first on the new hose, the finger tight in the backing plate with the bolt pointing in the right direction. Now go to the other end and start the flare nut, only a couple turns. Now you twist the end hose for the wheel turn clearance and "s" in the flex hose. When it's proper, slip the horse shoe clip in the hose 1/2 way. Turn the wheel in and out for verify clearance. Then tighten the banjo bolt, then fully seat the horshoe clip, then tighten the hard line into the hose, with two wrenches.

Bleed bottom cylinder first, then top. then adjust one shoe, Press the pedal a few times to center the shoe re adjust until the drum locks, the back off two steps. Do both shoes the same, center shoe lock, back off the same number of teeth.

Rinse and repeat

Brakes are not hard, I think there are a couple YouTube videos you can watch. I am on the TAN, call if you have questions. You do a test drive, at 15-20 mph stop hard with no hands on the steering wheel. If adjustment is correct it will stop short stright and the wheel will not move.

[David Jones]

Paul, you have been given great advice but I admit I have one concern on your statement on doing the rear wheel brakes.
You say you greased the bearings which on the rears are lubricated by transmission oil. Please correct me if I misconstrued your statement. If you did grease the rear wheel bearings it is not that big a deal as the grease will get tinned out by the trans oil and is unlikely to cause any problems, but if you did , how did you do it?

[Vic Skirmants]

Paul, you have been given great advice but I admit I have one concern on your statement on doing the rear wheel brakes.
You say you greased the bearings which on the rears are lubricated by transmission oil. Please correct me if I misconstrued your statement. If you did grease the rear wheel bearings it is not that big a deal as the grease will get tinned out by the trans oil and is unlikely to cause any problems, but if you did , how did you do it?

+1 on greasing the bearings. As David says, they are lubed from the trans oil. If you did not get oil draining out of the bearing, then your trans oil level is probably low.
Regarding the large return spring; before installing the shoes, hook up the parking brake cable to the lever, install the spring, spread the shoes, install the crossbar, and slide them up into the brake cylinder "buttons".

[Robert Reed]

Paul; I have recently redone my brakes, and may have a tip for replacing the front shoes. I made a set of clips from coat hanger wire to hold the cylinders in place while working on front brakes. I then assembled the shoes and springs, ran the adjusters all the way in. That way you can turn the bottom slots toward you a little, insert the bottom first, swing the shoes towards the backing plate and place one shoe into it’s slot and basically use your hands to pry the other into place easily. The pic I was going to post is too big, but you need something to hold the piston in place while you’re working with the shoe. I also recommend putting the assembly together while the backing plate is off the car.
The front is easier than the back, since there is no e brake to contend with.
Bob

[Jim Alton]

The big springs that retract the the shoes are not fun. I think I used vice-grips.

The small springs with washers that hold the shoes close to the backing plates get to be fairly easy with something like: Lisle 47400 Brake Spring Washer Tool, or KD Tools 2774 Brake Shoe Retaining Spring Tool.

If you don't already have such a tool they're well worth the couple bucks they cost.

[Al Zim]

Two things that no one has mentioned the first is that the wheel cylinders on the front need to be facing the way the wheel turns. The front side of the wheel cylinder is the part that moves under hydraulic pressure. That was the most important. The brakes will work with the wheel cylinders backwards but the brake pressure will be extremely high. The second is shimming the cap that holds the rear axle bearing in place. Someone has been there before you and not done it correctly. Use your shop manual for directions. Seriously consider the duel master cylinder. Gordon confessed to doing his own brake service and forgetting to tighten the bleeder on rear wheel. The duel master cylinder saved him. al zim Zim's autotechnik