Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

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Stephen Masefield
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Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#1 Post by Stephen Masefield »

Trying to get my rear toe in sorted.
At the shop they got the rear toe in it .041 & .04 close but still a little over - ideal should be "0" I understand from manual.
There is no more room to move the axle back further back; its at the end.
0319180839.jpg
I have heard that adjustment can be made at the trans-axle mounts - I have searched but can't find info anywhere. Pictured below is mine...
0319180839b.jpg
As mine is off almost equally on both side - maybe some obvious questions but please bear with me:
1. where do you place the shims ? (which side of rubber "donut" mount ?)
2. as the trans-axle hangs on a very robust hoop, bolted to the engine how do you get movement anyway !
2b. wouldn't the rubber mount just squash to take up extra shim ?
3. does the engine have to be out ?
0319180839a.jpg
0319180939b_resized.jpg
thanks
Steve
'57 Coupe
'61 Sunroof Coupe
'79 911SC Targa (Stupidly sold)
'23 Subaru BRZ (poor mans Porsche)
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Al Zim
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#2 Post by Al Zim »

The concept of hand made car is: NOTHING IS THE SAME SO EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE ADJUSTABLE. Beer drinking interferes with craftsmanship! Everything on the car can be moved around. It does not matter where you move the transmission the axle tubes pivot to compensate for the irregularities in the build. Your toe in is completely controlled at he spring plate where the axle tube attaches. Zim's uses a Hunter Elite alignment system to get the vehicle to move down the road as it should. There is not shop time to do this service! My experience has shown that most cars (including 911's and others) are not within specifications. Wearing our a set of V rated tires quickly will usually pay for a correct alignment. al zim, Zim's Autotechnik
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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#3 Post by Vic Skirmants »

Your toe-in is ALSO controlled by the transmission mounts. You will have to remove a shim between the metal cap and the chassis "horn" to move the trans FORWARD, which will toe-OUT the wheels. The mount does not squash. I am surprised that your toe readings are out of spec, unless there are too many spacers installed by a previous owner.

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Harlan Halsey
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#4 Post by Harlan Halsey »

Since when does "beer drinking interfere with craftsmanship"?!!

Jon Bunin
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#5 Post by Jon Bunin »

Stephen Masefield wrote:At the shop they got the rear toe in it .041 & .04 close but still a little over - ideal should be "0" I understand from manual.
Steve, here are the specs for rear toe-in from the factory B manual, page W 14:
.00 to .059" (0 to 1.5 mm) (0° ± 10')

These specs are per wheel, not combined.
I assume that the numbers you're quoting are in inches, and they are within spec, but they are within spec for millimeters, degrees or minutes as well.
Jon Bunin

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Tom Wavrin
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#6 Post by Tom Wavrin »

Stephen, there should be one shim facing each side of the car's body mounts. The toe-in should be measured while the car is unloaded and on the ground. There are articles describing quick methods to use for camber and toe-in measurements in Vol/No 9/2 and 12/2 Registries.
Tom, Reg # 10576, Oregon
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Stephen Masefield
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#7 Post by Stephen Masefield »

Thanks for quick replies - some info to response to those and pm's...
Is the hoop mounted backwards ? Here's a close up ...
0319181527.jpg
I don't think so but ...

There are spacers under each side of front mounts (so 4 in total)
0319181531a.jpg
and
0319181531.jpg
All the mounting nuts are tight...

The toe is .40 '
Jon mentions "... the specs for rear toe-in from the factory B manual, page W 14: .00 to .059" (0 to 1.5 mm) (0° ± 10')
so I am .30' beyond what the max should be... that will cause wear but enough to worry ? Tires ain't cheap as Al alludes too... wish were closer Al ;-)

Vic suggests to remove a shim to move the trans forward which will give me Tow out - which I need ... and then reset to 0' hopefully.
However can I run without a shim on each side ? I put this together 3+ years ago, so only me to blame :-(

It was tested in shop, unloaded and on the ramp (ie flat) that understand VW and Porsche's - they don't 't seem them often but understood the principle - I gave them copies from the manual.
Steve
'57 Coupe
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'79 911SC Targa (Stupidly sold)
'23 Subaru BRZ (poor mans Porsche)
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#8 Post by Jon Bunin »

Stephen Masefield wrote:Is the hoop mounted backwards ? Here's a close up ...
Steve, the hoop is installed correctly, although the six M10 bolts are in backwards.
Stephen Masefield wrote:There are spacers under each side of front mounts (so 4 in total)
The spacers are installed correctly, but can be re-arranged if necessary.
Stephen Masefield wrote:The toe is .40 '... Jon mentions "... the specs for rear toe-in from the factory B manual, page W 14: .00 to .059" (0 to 1.5 mm) (0° ± 10')
so I am .30' beyond what the max should be... that will cause wear but enough to worry ? Tires ain't cheap as Al alludes too... wish were closer Al ;-)
Steve, this is still confusing. Your first reference was .041 & .04, and now it's .40' (minutes). Realize that .40' (= 0.40' minutes) is not the same as 40' (= 40.0' minutes).
If you have this written down from the alignment shop, please tell or show us exactly what is written down.
Jon Bunin

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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#9 Post by Jon Bunin »

Stephen Masefield wrote:There are spacers under each side of front mounts (so 4 in total)
0319181531.jpg
Steve, If there is a spacer BEHIND the front mount in the last photo, that would NOT be correct, but it shouldn't affect your alignment if you still have "4 in total".
If you in fact have 6 spacers in total, that WOULD affect your alignment.
Jon Bunin

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#10 Post by Vic Skirmants »

Bingo! Good catch, Jon. I didn't notice that.

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Stephen Masefield
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#11 Post by Stephen Masefield »

Jon - (aka Sherlock/Eagle eyse) You nailed it !
I went looking for info. in the mean time and found this post
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42316
Where you posted this picture:
DSCN7014.JPG
DSCN7014.JPG (70.5 KiB) Viewed 2395 times

(side note -I have search for this picture in the manuals to no avail..(maybe I have a page missing ??)

I went back to the car and yes I have 6 shims !
So I will remove the the extra one from each side (trans side) and as per Vic that should bring trans Forward and hence give more TOW-OUT.

OPPS - it is .040' and .041' sorry for adding confusion.

And will reverse the 6x M10 hoop bolts. Thanks too on that spot.
Steve
'57 Coupe
'61 Sunroof Coupe
'79 911SC Targa (Stupidly sold)
'23 Subaru BRZ (poor mans Porsche)
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Martin Benade
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#12 Post by Martin Benade »

It's a beautiful thing to have such experts able to diagnose this from just a little data.
Last edited by Martin Benade on Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jon Bunin
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#13 Post by Jon Bunin »

Stephen Masefield wrote:OPPS - it is .040' and .041' sorry for adding confusion.
Well, I'm sorry Steve, but this is still confusing :-(

I can't believe that the alignment shop would have written .040 and .041 for rear toe-in as being minutes of degrees.
They might have written 0°40', or maybe 0-40, but not .040' for degrees or for minutes.

Those numbers, if written in thousandths, are more likely to be inch measurements.
Jon Bunin

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Stephen Masefield
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#14 Post by Stephen Masefield »

Sorry Jon ....I just reread again my post after your comment and the penny dropped ! I keep adding a leading '0' when there wasn't one.No wonder you were confused !
I hope this helps...I dug around in my phone - this is part of screen shot I took in the garage ...camber numbers above not shown to avoid confusion - just the degrees of Toe
0216181052_Burst01.jpg
0216181052_Burst01.jpg (44.97 KiB) Viewed 2356 times
Steve
'57 Coupe
'61 Sunroof Coupe
'79 911SC Targa (Stupidly sold)
'23 Subaru BRZ (poor mans Porsche)
Ford Diesel to haul 'stuff'

Jon Bunin
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Re: Rear Toe and Transmission adjustment...

#15 Post by Jon Bunin »

OK, that helps.

Their toe figure is displayed as 0.40°(degrees). In degrees alone, not in minutes or in degrees & minutes, or in inches.
To equate with the Porsche specs, 0.40° = 0°24'

For comparison, here is a screen display in degrees and minutes...
Image
Jon Bunin

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