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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:41 pm 
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The article indicates the young couple had just bought the car a year earlier for $90,750 but re-sold it for $85k and I assume the seller’s commission is 10%, (the Gooding web site does not specify the commission). If 10% they lost $14,250 and if they registered the car with their state sales tax could be another $6k. Why sell after just a year? Perhaps their home shop gave the B the thumbs down. What I’m saying, it’s not easy for young people or newbies in their 60s to enter the 356 market. Choose poorly and overnight loose $20K on a 356b coupe, $40k on a cab. People don’t get to test drive cars at auctions (do they?). Sellers don’t like to sell cars themselves fearing scams or 'an offer they can't refuse'. Because of the high value of the cars – it’s a tough nut. I bought a local MGA a few years ago off ebay. The seller let me look at it twice, neither he or I was too worried about getting scammed in anyway. It was easy. The MGA also has a hefty frame, so easier to evaluate.

It's a tough .


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:30 pm 
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If you are buying anything in the hopes of reselling for a profit (we'll call it 'investing'), you had better know the value of the good you are buying. Others are also trying to make money in that market, and many of them are going to be very knowledgeable; as a newbie, you will get the ones they don't buy.
I have to admit to a certain lack of sympathy; I don't 'invest' in old currency, even though I'd love to have examples of several historically notable coins. Entirely too easy to end up with one minted in 2015 rather than 1715.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:30 pm 
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We bumped into a friend earlier and afterwards were discussing his million-dollar loss in a restaurant venture. (Probably a bank actually lost the money). I was feeling that lack of sympathy as well. Same lack of knowledge, he is not a restaurant guy.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:43 pm 
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Wandering far off topic now...
Neither wife nor I have more than the least knowledge of the the food-service bizz, but following the Jim Liberty school of 'buying', we are doing well in backing a guy who did know what he was doing.
And it ain't a mill, either!
I'd still like an REAL Joachimsthaler, and a Croesus coin.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:02 am 
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I find it hard to understand that that is is intelligent for a newbie of any age to be buying a collector car is at an auction. For the beginner in the old car hobby, a good analogy would be learning to swim an a swamp full of alligators. Rather than a 90,750 dollar 356, the beginner would lean more dragging a 200 dollar VW Beetle out from behind a shed. But on the other hand, in 2018, a good university costs 100,000 dollars a year to attend, so perhaps this 356 education was cheap by comparison.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:40 am 
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The car in question had the twin-plug conversion; with the lower spark plug wires laying directly on the J-pipes!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:08 am 
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I think if you coldly look at buying a classic car as a pure investment, you should invest in something else. These cars are old, have history and it's not always good. But beyond any warts and pitfalls, you still have a 356 which is a wonderful car to drive and enjoy, even if it's the wrong color or has the wrong motor. I say wrong in term's of value, not in terms of enjoyment. My car has a C motor, and it's a T5 B, but I can't see the motor when I'm driving.
But even the "wrong" car can be right over time. I horse traded for my car over 10 years ago but a year before I traded for it I brokered a deal for it, so I knew the market value was $38,000. I traded a rough Roadster and a 73 911S for it, I'll attach a copy of the article if you want the details. But the point is here the car was worth about $40,000. Well, 10 years later, it's probably worth $125,000-150,000. So even a car that isn't perfect can ride the wave of higher values. But even if it didn't make a dime in terms of investment, I still have enjoyed the hell out of it. That should be your goal, buy a car you can afford and enjoy and if you keep it for more than 5 years, chances are it will go up in value. I know this because I've bought many a project car back from a guy who bought it and never did anything with it, and when I buy it back I usually have to pay more than when I sold it to him. Porsches generally go up over time. In the case of the couple who bought it and sold the car a year later, well, they didn't hold it long enough. They bought at a high market, maybe at auction, and then sold a year later, that's not good investing for any commodity,
Bottom line, don't invest, buy what you like and you can afford and if you hold it for 5 years you won't lose money, and chances are you will make money. Though it's a moot point really, because most of us don't sell our cars. I know I buy cars for a living, I know hundred's of guys with Speedster's, but none are selling, at least not today.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:22 am 
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+1 on Adam's comments about buy it and drive it. A point of reference though. Go out and buy a new car for 90K today keep it a year and try to sell it for 85K. GLWT.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:47 am 
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I agree, cars are a terrible investment. Right off the bat you loose 7% as a sales tax fee, which you don't pay when buying $90k of a mutual fund. You are immediately down $6K there, $15k on a speedster. Long term capital gains on mutual funds are 15% but I heard that preferred long term rate does not apply to automobiles. I even think 356 prices will drop, although possibly propped up 100% by europeans bringing them back home. Possibly contributing to any price drop would be the fact that buying one is like trying to learn to swim in an alligator swamp. I have bought many of the required books, but don't have a lot of time to read them. I will , but it could be 3 years from now. It's a high effort undertaking.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:01 am 
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This article is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Guy bought two cars from me, held them for 5 years, did nothing, he made money when I bought them back, and I made money when I re-sold them.

https://www.pca.org/news/2017-05-09/bar ... -parts-car

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Ron LaDow wrote:
Wandering far off topic now...

I'd still like an REAL Joachimsthaler, and a Croesus coin.


Ron,

I doubt that 95% of the readers here knew what you were talking about. Are you a Thaler collector? I have a few hundred from the 1500's to the 1700's. Focused on the Wildman and City Views, but bought any that were unusual too.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Larry Brooks wrote:
Ron LaDow wrote:
Wandering far off topic now...

I'd still like an REAL Joachimsthaler, and a Croesus coin.


Ron,

I doubt that 95% of the readers here knew what you were talking about. Are you a Thaler collector? I have a few hundred from the 1500's to the 1700's. Focused on the Wildman and City Views, but bought any that were unusual too.


Are those bitcoins?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:45 pm 
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For those people who view cars as investment vehicles, a brief reminder: leverage works both ways.

If you buy a $100K car, put up $20K, and get a loan for $80K, you are leveraged 5 to 1. So if the car appreciates 20% to $120K, you have doubled your initial investment- a 100% return. Good news, you are a king.

If however the price falls 20%, you are wiped out: your return is -100%.

This analysis assumes you can trade for free, and that of course is completely unrealistic. Transaction costs are never zero. Auction houses always get their premium. There is sales tax, car registration fee, etc. Dealers (like to) buy at wholesale and sell at retail.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:30 pm 
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Steven Murray wrote:
People don’t get to test drive cars at auctions (do they?).

.


The good auction houses (Goodings, Bonhams, RM) allow registered bidders to go on test drives on viewing days. Usually driven by a bidder's assistant, on a pre-designated route that is agreed upon by the auction house's insurance company. Thus, on viewing days, at these auctions, you can see F-40's and all other sorts of very expensive cars running the streets.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:44 am 
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VinceFinaldi wrote:
Steven Murray wrote:
People don’t get to test drive cars at auctions (do they?).

.


The good auction houses (Goodings, Bonhams, RM) allow registered bidders to go on test drives on viewing days. Usually driven by a bidder's assistant, on a pre-designated route that is agreed upon by the auction house's insurance company. Thus, on viewing days, at these auctions, you can see F-40's and all other sorts of very expensive cars running the streets.


Might be worth getting my blazer and chinos out of the cupboard for a morning of fun :)


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