Jack Resto Revisited

356 Porsche-related discussions and questions.
Message
Author
User avatar
Ronald Sieber
356 Fan
Posts: 401
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:48 pm
Location: Hillsborough, NC
Contact:

Jack Resto Revisited

#1 Post by Ronald Sieber »

I was thinking about breaking down my jack to touch up its parts and do a proper cleaning/de-rusting of the shaft, but I am would also like to re-assemble it without a creating a problem. It seems pretty straight-forward... I was wondering if anyone had already posted about this activity, as I could not find a link. Has anyone read a posting about dismantling it?

I did find the Barry Brisco posting from 2010 as seen below, which is mostly about cleaning up and painting jack parts while assembled:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=24710&hilit=jack+r ... g+the+jack

Thanks,
=rds

User avatar
Peter Silten
356 Fan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:27 pm

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#2 Post by Peter Silten »

I have restored a number of jacks and will be bringing two to the Lit Meet, one for the A cars and one for the B, C and early 912/911s. The easiest way to disassemble the jack is to remove the rubber end piece and the internal clip that holds that piece in place. After you have done that, you need to remove the clip that sits in the groove just below the rubber piece. After that clip has been removed pump the jack and all of the pieces will come off together. Keep track of how they fit together. To reassemble the jack just reverse the process. Getting the jack mechanism to move back down the shaft can be tricky but you will be able to figure out how to do it. To remove the blue base piece you need to remove either the bottom clip that holds it in place or the one that is right above it. Those clips can be hard to remove or replace so I don’t recommend that you do it unless absolutely necessary. Good luck.
Attachments
Jack Clip.JPG
Jack Clip.JPG (17.65 KiB) Viewed 2353 times
Jack 5.jpg
jack 6.jpg

User avatar
Ronald Sieber
356 Fan
Posts: 401
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:48 pm
Location: Hillsborough, NC
Contact:

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#3 Post by Ronald Sieber »

Thanks for the answer, Peter! Sounds like no minefields on this one...

User avatar
Mike Wilson
Classifieds Monitor
Posts: 11492
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: SW Los Angeles

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#4 Post by Mike Wilson »

As Peter pointed out, the round clips can be a bear to remove but by removing them, you can do a better job restoring the other pieces including the shaft.

Mike
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe

Brad Ripley
356 Fan
Posts: 4205
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:28 pm

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#5 Post by Brad Ripley »

Snap ring usually cannot be removed without bending it. Here is a new one: http://www.stoddard.com/64472200200-nla.html

I believe the wavy snap ring shown in the same photo is made by Ab Tiederman.

User avatar
Jim Alton
356 Fan
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:11 pm
Location: Los Angeles County

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#6 Post by Jim Alton »

A few years back I got a new shaft at the Lit Meet, I think it was from Carquip http://www.carquip.com/. I have no idea whether or not they still supply them but it worked real well.
Jack to my 1965 911
Jack to my 1965 911
I used cold blue on the flat springs inside the rubber doughnut and the blue base, ran the grey metal parts through my brass tumbler for many hours and got the spring and round retaining rings nickel plated (over restored but probably closer to new than I could get otherwise).
 
Jim Alton
Los Angeles County, CA
1958 Porsche 356A Cabriolet
1965 Porsche 911 Coupé
1966 Volkswagen Type 2
2003 Porsche 986 Boxster

User avatar
Albert Tiedemann
356 Fan
Posts: 1229
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#7 Post by Albert Tiedemann »

Brad Ripley wrote:Snap ring usually cannot be removed without bending it. Here is a new one: http://www.stoddard.com/64472200200-nla.html

I believe the wavy snap ring shown in the same photo is made by Ab Tiedemann.
I do not make the "wavy snap ring" referred to by Brad The item illustrated is a tolerance ring and Porsche used the VW part because the latter had had it its dimensions custom manufactured in large number quantities for the application.[aside; and, we all know the law of large numbers]

I do manufacture the "internal locating ring" which Peter mentions in a previous post. There is no part illustration for this element of the assembly, but it may be best described as a wire form having a four leaf clover appearance with surfaces that ride the groove diameter in the shaft provided. The width of the wire form and the groove width in the shaft are closely toleranced to minimize end play although once the rubber has dried "a while" on the shaft [jack column] the need for the designers specification for the manufacturing limits could be challenged. Another critical dimension is the installed diameter of the wire form as this controls the effort required to remove/replace the protective elastomer interface. To my knowledge the latter is not available as a Porsche classic part although the price for same has been escalating to that status. It has been available for some time now as an Aftermarket part by, initially, one source and carried by the rest of the well known vendors. It is colloquially known as the" rubber doughnut" in some circles. On jacks that need restoration, this part is likely in need of replacement as evidenced by the cracks that present at the surface nearest the jack column of the part when the outermost diameter of the part is deflected like the tip of a fishing rod away from the lifting mechanism to remove same up and over the wire form ['internal locating ring"] and free of the jack column. The elastomer is often hard and brittle, and in most cases clings to the wire form making removal somewhat difficult and in some cases can result in breaking the wire form. This is the principal reason why some jacks do not have the wire form described. Since the wire form is a heat treated part, excessive, forced deflection, whether in removal of the elastomer or the wire form from the groove, can result in breakage, and therein is one of the landmines previously expressed as not to exist.
Last edited by Albert Tiedemann on Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Albert Tiedemann, C356C
"The Hermit"

User avatar
Albert Tiedemann
356 Fan
Posts: 1229
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#8 Post by Albert Tiedemann »

Jim Alton wrote:A few years back I got a new shaft at the Lit Meet, I think it was from Carquip http://www.carquip.com/. I have no idea whether or not they still supply them but it worked real well.
2018-02-05 19.54.30.jpg
I used cold blue on the flat springs inside the rubber doughnut and the blue base, ran the grey metal parts through my brass tumbler for many hours and got the spring and round retaining rings nickel plated (over restored but probably closer to new than I could get otherwise).
Since I restore jacks for the 356/early 912/911 Porsches, I have had many occasions present that required a new jack column. I make and can offer this column to the 356 community as a replacement part if you are doing your own restoration. This column is proportioned exactly as the OEM product, 22mm diameter x 3mm wall and replete with all grooves originally conveyed there on. I plan to attend the Hershey Swap in April 2018. Location is not known at this this posting. I will bring new columns, very good to excellent OEM columns with patina for the purist, and a half dozen or so fully restored jacks. Bring your old jack for a core trade in. I restored my first jack in 1962 in preparation for the 8th Porsche Parade.
Last edited by Albert Tiedemann on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Albert Tiedemann, C356C
"The Hermit"

User avatar
Albert Tiedemann
356 Fan
Posts: 1229
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#9 Post by Albert Tiedemann »

Brad Ripley wrote:Snap ring usually cannot be removed without bending it. Here is a new one: http://www.stoddard.com/64472200200-nla.html

Brad is correct. A better descriptor might be"permanent deformation" Even the clips that I removed in 1962 with my [then] strong fingers did not fit the groove as well on re installation [again with strong fingers]. Even taking every precaution, it is highly unlikely to avoid some permanent deformation. Permanent deformation is the outcome of bending the clip in several planes to remove it beyond the elastic limit in at least one of the planes. Back in the day, I cannot remember if such a piece of metric standard hardware was available. However, I do remember searching the garage floor for a wavy washer or two that could not be obtained new anywhere. Since this part has now been made available by Stoddard*, my recommendation is to get it out of the groove by whatever means and install new ones. Save yourself the aggravation[not to mention a lot of time], and your fingers injury as well to remove the ring. However, on re-installation care must be exercised to limit displacement to an amount just barely enough to get the ring over the shaft diameter and advanced along the shaft without further displacement until it is seated in the groove. I have designed and manufacture special tooling to ease this task when I restore a jack. This tooling applies a uniform internal radial load to expand the ring to to a predetermined and safe [<yield strength of the ring material] and advance the ring at this predetermined dimension until the ring "snaps" into the groove. Installations made with tooling designed with these feature result it a tight fitting ring in the groove that resists tangential loads to displace it from and around the groove.

*Research of suppliers of Metric hardware show this ring to be available only in an oil finish. A question for Brad is whether this ring carries any top coat finish as many OEM jacks that I have restored have had either a Zn[galvanized]
or cadmium finish. Cadmium finish would aid for the installation as it does provide some lubricity for any sliding action required/desired [at the risk of toxicity concerns]. It is also better than Zn in a marine environment.
Albert Tiedemann, C356C
"The Hermit"

User avatar
Albert Tiedemann
356 Fan
Posts: 1229
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#10 Post by Albert Tiedemann »

All:

The intent of this post is just to clarify the three original photos that were posted by Peter from top to bottom. The top photo is not related to the middle or bottom photos even though the middle photo shows the "rubber doughnut". The middle and bottom photos are disassembled states of the opposite end of the jack assembly where the blue base would be mounted.

It would be instructive to all contemplating a DIY jack restoration if a photo of the shaft for the end mounting the rubber doughnut be posted with the details of the groove and the locating wire form shown as was pictured in the middle and bottom photos for the end mounting the blue base.
Albert Tiedemann, C356C
"The Hermit"

User avatar
Peter Silten
356 Fan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:27 pm

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#11 Post by Peter Silten »

Here are some additional photos of the shaft and its two ends. The middle photo is of the end that holds the blue base. That shaft is available for purchase if anyone needs one.

BTW, it is nice to know that replacement clips are available but I have experienced no problems reusing the old clips.
Attachments
Jack Shaft 1.jpg
Jack Shaft 3.jpg
Jack Shaft 2.jpg

User avatar
Albert Tiedemann
356 Fan
Posts: 1229
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#12 Post by Albert Tiedemann »

Peter Silten wrote:I have restored a number of jacks and will be bringing two to the Lit Meet, one for the A cars and one for the B, C and early 912/911s. Aside from the design changes embedded over the years in the lifting/support component of the jack [see website on 356 jacks], the springs are also different for jacks supplied with early 356 cars. Later springs are simple compression designs while earlier ones have especially formed ends. The latter are somewhat expensive to recreate in small quantities owing to the necessity to hand form the ends. Both springs were originally plated. If your springs are salvageable [no deep pitting], it may be more advantageous to clean and replate, If not, I can offer these springs in both designs. My springs are fabricated from stainless steel, otherwise complying with all other spring characteristics of the original design. One nearly NOS master was use as the template to hand form the intricate ends of the earlier springs. The concession to E [modulus of elasticity] results in a somewhat negligible effect on the magnitude of the needed force to return the lifting mechanism in preparation for the next pumping action to raise the car to the next incremental level. The easiest way to disassemble the jack is to remove the rubber end piece and the internal clip that holds that piece in place. After you have done that, you need to remove the clip that sits in the groove just below the rubber piece. After that clip has been removed pump the jack and all of the pieces will come off together. Keep track of how they fit together. To reassemble the jack just reverse the process. Not quite! The parts may be ordered for reassembly in the "reverse" but the components cannot be jacked back on from the end that they were removed. It is a bit tricky as mentioned, but the assembly of juggled components must be reassembled by releasing the jack mechanism as they are fed back onto the column in the proper sequence in an analogous fashion as the load is released in lowering the car from a lifted position with the jack handle wedged between the surfaces provided. I have found that a sturdy screw driver with a shaft diameter approximating the diameter of the jack handle, 13 mm, works well for the tool useful for this assembly maneuver. Once all components are assembled onto the column, further movement of the assembly along the column can be made with the components in the released state [held with the useful tool mentioned] until a desired position along the column is achieved. When reached, just remove the tool. .....To remove the blue base piece you need to remove either the bottom clip that holds it in place or the one that is right above it.[requires all other components mounted upon the column be removed] The former is the one I recommend to remove first. It is far easier to remove this round cross section retaining ring because there are leveraging surfaces available for holding and prying the ring off. Yes, the rings are difficult to remove and the one transferring the lifted load is the most difficult when the blue base is in its assembled position. Better to remove the ring that retains the base first, then remove the base for better access of purchase surfaces of the load transfer ring. Those clips can be hard to remove or replace so I don’t recommend that you do it unless absolutely necessary. Good luck.
Comments in bold red color
Albert Tiedemann, C356C
"The Hermit"

User avatar
Al Zim
356 Fan
Posts: 4309
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: FT.WORTH/DALLAS TEXAS
Contact:

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#13 Post by Al Zim »

Zim's has reproduced the jack handle in the correct diameter and length cadmium plated. Cost is $19.95 March 2018. al zim 800.356.2964
www.allzim.com 
356 Parts and Services
www.facebook.com/ZimsAuto/
www.instagram.com/zims_autotechnik/

User avatar
Albert Tiedemann
356 Fan
Posts: 1229
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#14 Post by Albert Tiedemann »

Al:

Cannot find your 356 jack handle on your website. Only scissors jack with handle [far more complex than 356 emergency jack handle] for $24.95 is found when 356 parts are searched for jack handle. Could you provide "key word" to use to find item described or post picture please.
Albert Tiedemann, C356C
"The Hermit"

User avatar
Al Zim
356 Fan
Posts: 4309
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: FT.WORTH/DALLAS TEXAS
Contact:

Re: Jack Resto Revisited

#15 Post by Al Zim »

Many of our parts are not in the catalogue give us a call and one of the parts guys can fill the order. We have been carrying this part for about 10 years. al zim 800.356.2964 Thank You
www.allzim.com 
356 Parts and Services
www.facebook.com/ZimsAuto/
www.instagram.com/zims_autotechnik/

Post Reply