T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
- Joris Koning
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T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
Motivated by the great thread about deco's recently I hope we can pull together the collective wisdom and document the difference between early front noses and later ones. I am in the midst of restoring a real early '56 coupe and the need for a new front clip has made me study these in more detail.
With the help from Chuck House and others I have already been able to document the following differences:
- Horn grills are closer to headlight mounting screw hole on early (T1?) cars (60mm on the early noses, 80mm on the later T-2 noses)
- Holes for front signal lights (6/12 for early noses, 3/9 on T-2 noses)
- Bumper holes are bigger on the T2 noses
- Chin, center of the nose, on early noses is more pronounced than the later noses
I'd love to hear other observations and better yet pictures and measurements of known original noses. It would be interesting to see if for example the horn grill location is a hard T1 vs. T2 change or whether it was already phased in during T1 production
TIA,
Joris
With the help from Chuck House and others I have already been able to document the following differences:
- Horn grills are closer to headlight mounting screw hole on early (T1?) cars (60mm on the early noses, 80mm on the later T-2 noses)
- Holes for front signal lights (6/12 for early noses, 3/9 on T-2 noses)
- Bumper holes are bigger on the T2 noses
- Chin, center of the nose, on early noses is more pronounced than the later noses
I'd love to hear other observations and better yet pictures and measurements of known original noses. It would be interesting to see if for example the horn grill location is a hard T1 vs. T2 change or whether it was already phased in during T1 production
TIA,
Joris
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- Al Zim
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
I have examined and sold a lot of 356A cars. Those cars were in a steady progression of modifications. This was especially true after the onset of the 6 digit serial number in coupes. March 1957. Not long ago I sold a A-T1 cabriolet hat had all the chassis modifications for the T-2 car. Unless you were at the factory building those cars in the 50's you will never be able to be 100% correct in diagnosing what really happened. al zim
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- Joris Koning
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
Al,
Exact changes are always hard to pin point. However a period when the change took place can often be deducted. This is what Brett did for years in his great column for our magazine.
Talking about that, I remembered him writing about this exact topic. In our magazine archive look up magazine 21-4 . The horn grill detail is discussed in Brett's column. He pin points mid 56, when the over rider bumper appeared, as the moment when the grill openings were lowered on the front clip.
J
Exact changes are always hard to pin point. However a period when the change took place can often be deducted. This is what Brett did for years in his great column for our magazine.
Talking about that, I remembered him writing about this exact topic. In our magazine archive look up magazine 21-4 . The horn grill detail is discussed in Brett's column. He pin points mid 56, when the over rider bumper appeared, as the moment when the grill openings were lowered on the front clip.
J
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
attached the section
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- Joris Koning
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
Some more detective work:
Original Pre-A parts catalog II:
- 356.51.345 (from coupe #52030 and cab #60550)
Original A parts catalog, may 57
- 644.51.345
- New part number 644.503.101.00
Pre-A catalog II early 60's print
- 644.503.011.00
A parts catalog with T2 addition:
- 644.503.011.00
- 644.503.011.10 (GT with rolled edge)
It is clear that the parts book is of no real help. The T-2 nose has a later part number and was likely the only thing available after the earlier noses were used up.
Original Pre-A parts catalog II:
- 356.51.345 (from coupe #52030 and cab #60550)
Original A parts catalog, may 57
- 644.51.345
- New part number 644.503.101.00
Pre-A catalog II early 60's print
- 644.503.011.00
A parts catalog with T2 addition:
- 644.503.011.00
- 644.503.011.10 (GT with rolled edge)
It is clear that the parts book is of no real help. The T-2 nose has a later part number and was likely the only thing available after the earlier noses were used up.
Last edited by Joris Koning on Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
Too bad Gerry McCarthy is no longer with us, I remember him telling me about taking a class in the back of Hoffman's on changes from T1-T2. One of the guys asked the Porsche rep if they fixed something specific, the Porsche rep, Wolfgang I think, diplomatically commented that there were aware of that and had improved it, but it wasn't faulty in the T1.
I miss Gerry, a fountain of knowledge!
I miss Gerry, a fountain of knowledge!
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
Ah a 256A with the adapter. If he was serious he would have two additional tools on the bench! What are they. al zim
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
#55820 has the grills closer to the bucket. Still hoping others will post their measurements and vin
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- Joris Koning
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
Seems to be quite clear that I am the only one who cares about this but I will keep posting stubbornly.
So far coupe #55942 is the earliest car I have been able to find with the later style front clip (no idea if the car was ever clipped in its life) For speedsters I have #82129 as the latest car with the early clip. Funny is that on this car the right and left grills do not match so either side was replaced at one point in time.
So far coupe #55942 is the earliest car I have been able to find with the later style front clip (no idea if the car was ever clipped in its life) For speedsters I have #82129 as the latest car with the early clip. Funny is that on this car the right and left grills do not match so either side was replaced at one point in time.
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
On my 1956 356 coupe the horn grille is in the lower position. The VIN # is 57276 and the production date was 9/06/56 so it is a very late 1956 car and is registered as 1956. Sorry about using my 40 year old tape measure. The distance from the bottom of the headlight bucket to the top turn signal mounting hole is about 60mm.
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
could there be a correlation between the T1 vs T2 battery floor?
Jules
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Water pumps are for windshield washers only.
- Joris Koning
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
Thanks for sharing Jim. It looks like the change was somewhere in march/april of 56. Hope to find some more vins so that we can narrow the vin range.
Hi Jules, interesting thought? You mean the floor with the drains versus the later one? I think this happened later but it would be interesting to see what we can find
Hi Jules, interesting thought? You mean the floor with the drains versus the later one? I think this happened later but it would be interesting to see what we can find
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
Joris, do you have a chassis number range during which this change took place? It may be a wide range, but it would be useful to state, so that people with cars within this chassis number range could weigh in.
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
No, the drain was a pre A thing, way early. The T1 has a battery floor without rib, somewhere in late 56 the center rib appeared.Joris Koning wrote:Thanks for sharing Jim. It looks like the change was somewhere in march/april of 56. Hope to find some more vins so that we can narrow the vin range.
Hi Jules, interesting thought? You mean the floor with the drains versus the later one? I think this happened later but it would be interesting to see what we can find
Jules
Water pumps are for windshield washers only.
Water pumps are for windshield washers only.
- Joris Koning
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Re: T0/1 versus T2 front clip documentation thread
The T1s actually also have the drain
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