How Significant are Kardex Factory Options?

[Eric Lenius]

Hey Kids!

I personally feel that high end options most important when they came with the car from the factory. Dealer installed options when documented on the sales receipt are great as well.

How significant do you think that Kardex listed factory options are?

Have been discussing purchase of a fairly highly optioned (factory installed) coupe as of late. I, just can't get the asking price to pencil out. Two of the items on this particular vehicle are Rudge wheels and a GT tank.

[Adam Wright]

Anything that is Factory documented makes the car more rare, and more rare always equal's more money. Some sellers take this to the extreme so everything has it's limit, but the short answer is yes, Kardex options, especially rare ones like Rudge Wheels or GT Tank add a lot of value to a car. It might help if you told us more about the car and the price, then we could tell you if it truly pencils out or not. People ask me how I determine if a car is the right price, I tell them the math never lies. Which is why I can walk from a Speedster but run to a B Coupe, if the math tells me to.

[Eric Lenius]

Hi Adam,

Thanks for the help. I can run a calculator as well as anyone I suppose. I don't want to be that guy. You know the one, always fishing for free appraisals. Angling to get hard earned business knowledge at no cost. So, I am not proposing a public pencil whipping of this. I was hoping for a gut feel on the premium that one might apply in calculating what the factory option might create. If you can reliably sell an original set of rudges and drums for X on a given day then would factory Rudges enhance the price you pay by 150 percent of X? Or, some other ratio? Or, is it really just the swap meet table price that you add to the purchase price for an otherwise normal car?

[Adam Wright]

Hi Adam,

Thanks for the help. I can run a calculator as well as anyone I suppose. I don't want to be that guy. You know the one, always fishing for free appraisals. Angling to get hard earned business knowledge at no cost. So, I am not proposing a public pencil whipping of this. I was hoping for a gut feel on the premium that one might apply in calculating what the factory option might create. If you can reliably sell an original set of rudges and drums for X on a given day then would factory Rudges enhance the price you pay by 150 percent of X? Or, some other ratio? Or, is it really just the swap meet table price that you add to the purchase price for an otherwise normal car?

It depends, if the Rudges are on the Kardex, date matched to the car, maybe even original, then yes, a high premium will be paid. I wish Rudges were a magic bullet, my driver Roadster would be worth a lot more now, but they aren't, unless your car got on the boat with them, my car did not.
As far as sharing business knowledge for free, my phone rings all day every day with these questions. I'm always happy to help, feel free to drop me an email if you do need help.

[Michael Hund]

Not to hijack this thread but I would appreciate receiving thoughts on my Kardex experience. I recently received it as part of my quest to discover my car's history. I recently acquired this car, after coveting these cars generally for decades and this car specifically for several years. It is a very nice 1964 SC Irish green coupe. I am trying to learn its history before the most recent 20 years or so as I have been able to discover its recent history fairly easily. In any event, the Kardex does not say a lot although it does confirm my most pressing question - that it was originally delivered to Sonauto in France, thus confirming the legitimacy of the plate on my fan housing. Se here is my question. My car has the fresh air blower (it works) including the extra lever in the dash that makes it operate. I also have fog lights, radio and full horn ring on steering wheel. So should I assume these options were added later since neither the Kardex nor the certificate of authenticity list these (or any other) optional equipment? Or is that not necessarily the case? Thanks so much for the thoughts and for running this resource. I am finding it very helpful in allowing me to come up to speed on these cars in a hurry. This site is much the same as a similar site that is dedicated to Mercedes 230/250/280 SL, my most recent hobby car experience.

[James Davies]

Michael, just because something is not listed on your Kardex, does not mean that option was not put on the car. The Kardex was a warranty document. It wasn't a production build document. So sometimes the clerks filling them out were a bit lazy and didn't write down things.

Often if a car was going to a certain importer, and that importer always got X, Y and Z on his cars, then those options would not get listed on the Kardex, as they were just understood. So for instance, from late '52, all Hoffman cars got sealed beam headlights. But these are not listed on all Kardex after that. And likewise, it's possible that standard options might get listed on the Kardex, if the car was special ordered with those items listed as wanted on the car.

The Kardex is only guide. It does not tell the whole story.

[Eric Lenius]

Hi Michael!

I also own a 1965 Irish Green SC coupe. My favorite color! All of the options you list were available as dealer installed options. It is speculated that the dealer could pocket a bit more in profit by adding accessories at the full accessory price at the time of sale rather than ordering the car so equipped from the factory. In addition, ordering the car as a base model gave the dealer a chance to sell it to someone without the pocket book to be up marketed into the accessory realm.

I would like to address what I see as a convenience taken by people in explaining the legitimacy of their possessions. In every high end collectable field I have been involved in you see it. Vintage guitars, Vintage Audio equipment, Vintage Cars, you name it. Time has passed and things get changed. Here and there, you see things that are outside the norm that seem original but these are outliers whose frequency is far less than what you see being explained as somehow correct. Of course, the engine and transaxle numbers are jumbled a bit. The were built in separate lots and it is a matter of chance which chassis they ended up in. But, if you look at the overall picture, a definite trend is seen in the ranges. Date codes on components lead the assembly date by a bit and tend to be in groups representing the batch size ordered by Porsche.

Though it is possible that options like the ones you list might not make it on the Kardex or COA, I posit that it is unlikely. The terms lazy and not detail oriented are not good descriptions for the German people. They are exactly the opposite on average. Porsche had every reason to accurately list the factory installed options on the Kardex. If something failed on those items, they would be liable for warranty repairs. If they failed on a dealer installed option they would not.

The safest assumption is that correct options not listed on the Kardex or COA were either installed at a dealership or later by the owners. Even not factory installed, these options are a significant enhancement.

[Dick Douglass]

Eric,
In an attempt to stay on topic a set of Rudge Wheels for a 1958 A car on the European Collectables web site. Click on inventory, Porsche and scroll down to the bottom. $ 39,000

There was a car for sale 2 years ago at the All Porsche Swap Meet at the Phoenix Club in Anaheim. The seller was so excited because the car had factory installed Rudge Wheels and it showed on the Kardex. He tried to make it sound like it was a big deal. I think the car came from Arizona. The truth was other people PASSED on the car because they knew the wheels had to be dissembled and rebuilt and chromed in order to insure that the wheels were safe. The cost of the car plus rebuilding the wheels plus the added suggested value of the car with matching Kardex didn't pencil out.
We were in Carmel Valley years ago when Ken Ward's A car lost a Rudge wheel while he was driving at night after a Porsche 356 event. Then we all learned more about Rudge wheels than we cared to know.
Factory installed GT Tank is pretty cool per Kardex. Comes in handy during a gas crisis. Unfortunately 356 owners drive on average 3,000 miles per year so the cost of the car with a GT tank per Kardex only has value at 356 events with the hood up, and the Kardex on the windshield.
We say "You can get anything you want.... at Alice's........ Porsche Dealership"

[Eric Lenius]

Thanks Dick!

Yes, I agree, the GT tank is cool but adds little to the experience. I did manage just under 12K miles the first year with our SC coupe. I guess if I chase after other cars, that average will go down.

[Eric Lenius]

Oh yeah, again, the question is simply this. Do you think things installed at the factory warrant a purchase price in excess of the value of the parts themselves.

Rudge Wheels explode if not restored?

[Adam Wright]

Oh yeah, again, the question is simply this. Do you think things installed at the factory warrant a purchase price in excess of the value of the parts themselves.

Rudge Wheels explode if not restored?

They tend to fail in a couple of places, around the rivets being one of them.

[Dick Douglass]

Rolly Resos would be the correct person to ask.

There are so many 356's in California that when we see a car like the one you mentioned we only focus for a short time and then want to see the next 356. I agree buyers pay more because of the hype, but learn 12 other cars around here have the same providence.

Experts will explain about the rivets and the hole in the rims.
There is a person who can restore Rudge rims and for some reason I think there is a waiting list. I may be wrong.

[Eric Lenius]

Hmmm....that does not look like a restoration candidate. Though, that looks like a restored wheel. Maybe they manhandled it a bit much when separating the wheel from the hub. Or did not bake the wheel after stripping to minimize hydrogen embrittlement? That is a previously restored wheel, right? The rivets look crazy shiny and big.

[Eric Lenius]

Of course, what do I know? New guy.

[Eric Lenius]

Merry Christmas, by the way!