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 Post subject: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:21 am 
356 Fan
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Location: West Sussex, England
Greetings from across the pond, I'm just about to start installing a 'Precision Matters' full flow oil filter onto my '59 engine and I thought I should just ask the assembled masses if there might be any particular part of the procedure I should be aware of or give extra caution to. I do realise when grinding the existing oil pump I must be very careful regarding the containment of swarf but you guys may have some tips.
I am using a Mocal oil filter attachment and locating this on the right and inside of the engine compartment (looking at the rear of the car). This attachment takes regular Ford oil filters.


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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:25 am 
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When I installed mine, I used the small rubber/plastic plugs that PM provides to keep the filings from getting into the oil passages. It can be done. A far better method though, would be to remove the third piece and do the grinding on a bench. The oil passages can then be flushed out. The latter method involves a little more work, but is much safer.

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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:54 pm 
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I agree with Wes on removing the third piece. I just installed two of these filters. They are well made and I highly recommend their use. The most difficult part of the procedure is when assembling to make sure the oil pump gears turn smoothly. This can be accomplished with the 3rd piece off by turning the gears by hand. The small locating pins usually do not line up and relocating them is much easier off the engine. You can actually do the whole conversion off the engine and then just line up the drive tang and then reinstall the third piece. Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:20 pm 
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Guys, please tell me more about the 'third piece'. I've got the lower pulley off the engine plus, of course, the metal panel behind it. Do I have to strip any more off the engine and will I need gaskets etc when reinstalling the third piece. Or does the engine have to be removed? Originally I purchased the engine as a going concern so I have not had to get into it at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Graham,
First, I'm not sure the Pre Mat part will fit your engine. They are designed for the "large pump" engines which were introduced in the 1960 model year, and it will not drive a mechanical tach. If you post an image of the rear of the engine, it is very obvious. For instance, if you have a mechanical tach, the early engine drive is off the upper gear.
And, yes, I should modify the instructions. Best practice is to remove the timing cover ("third piece") which is the part which contains the oil pump. Per Wes and Jim, Porsche got somewhat casual with the placement of the dowels on the later engines and you really do want to confirm the gears rotate smoothly. Fitting them and rotating them in the removed cover is the only way to confirm that. No, the engine does not require removal to do so, but you ought to replace the gaskets when you do.

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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:57 pm 
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With all your information I've been back in the garage today to get on with fitting the PreMat oil adaptor. I pulled off the metalwork, the exhaust and lower pulley to get a good access to the oil pump. I unbolted the cover and prior to removing the timing cover I thought I should just offer up the new piece and of course it didn't fit. The first thing is my engine has a mechanical tach drive although it is not used as I'm running all Autometer gauges. Then I found that one bolt hole in the adaptor was machined about a quarter inch higher than the stock position. So everything is stopped until I can get these problems sorted out. Just regarding the removal of the timing cover, a motorcycle racing pal of mine informs that he does a fairly similar modification to his Suzuki race engine diverting oil supply and this is directly on the block. He said that if you are gently grinding aluminium you wont be making a lot of swarf and most of it will be dust anyway. He twists his motors up to 14 and a half thousand and has never had any problems. So with his patented swarf catching procedure (knotted twine and silicone) I think I shall save myself the aggravation of removing the third piece. I hope I'm right, anyway here are some pics.


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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:07 pm 
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Grinding with the cover in place is not a problem from a contamination point of view however it could be a problem in terms of how smoothly the oil pump gears turn once the cover is torqued down. It is not unusual for a different cover to make the gears bind a bit which can be corrected by removing the locating pins and getting the gears to turn smoothly as you tighten the cover.

It may not be a problem and I think many have been installed with the cover attached to the engine. Maybe Ron will chime in.

If done with the cover attached then remove the gears, create wads of rag to plug the 3 holes tightly, use brake cleaner to remove all oil, grind, vacuum, and wash. Then pull the wads out with hands or needle nose pliers, vacuum, and wash. Put a little grease where the gears make contact with the cover and each other.

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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:19 pm
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Location: Porscheville France
Your engine has a small oïl pump...... and parts from Ron are for engine with big oil pump!


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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:36 pm 
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Graham,
That is a 'small pump' engine and the parts will not fit.
In order to fit a full flow to that engine, you'll need to check with Vic to see if he makes an outlet for the small pump engines: http://356enterprises.com/engine-rebuil ... rsche-356/
You can also modify the case, but here's a run down on the issue: http://www.precisionmatters.biz/pdf/ful ... ration.pdf
(Olivier beat me to it)

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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:12 pm 
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Location: SE Michigan
"That is a 'small pump' engine and the parts will not fit."
+1 That's also the reason that the holes are "wrong"; they are not. the cover is up-side down.
It. Won't. Fit. The. Small. Pump. Period.
And; No, I don't have anything for the small-pump engines.

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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:07 pm 
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Graham,
If the person who sold that to you bought it from Pre Mat, he got the standard "Pump Size? Year? Heater? Muffler?" from me and should have passed it on to you.
You're not alone; got a note from Andy Prill for a small-pump adapter and told him that for all of my efforts at designing one, the factory simply made the pump too small to get all the stuff in there. Yes, it is possible, but it is possible at a cost that means people would opt to stick the original engine under the bench and stick a 912 in there.
In the UK, I'd contact PR Services or Prill to see if anyone is modifying the stock covers for full-flow adaption.
Sorry, Vic, I confused your tach-drive cover with a small-pump cover.

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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:29 am 
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Well, looky there!
In looking at the images, you have one of the rare thermostatic valve engine, and therefore you have a real opportunity if someone will speak up.
Someone on the list designed a very clever modification for those engines which does the 'goz-outa' and 'goz-inda' all in one package at the thermo valve cavity.
C'mon, speak up here and help a buddy!

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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:30 am 
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You guys are Good. Thanks for all the info. The adaptor I have came from Andy Prill's Porsche Classics. It looks like it will have to be returned which is a shame because I already bought the remote oil filter housing, all the AN fittings and braided hose. I've even ordered a couple of hipo Fram filters. I think that at the end of the day I would be a heck of a lot better off if I could source a 912 motor and go to town on that. Hey, the car's an outlaw anyway so I'm not concerned with matching numbers and all that stuff. I'll post up what transpires.

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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:01 am 
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Here is the 'goz-outa-goz inda' of which Ron speaks.

Image

I discussed this method with Andy Prill when I wanted a full flow system on my small pump engine but he preferred his own time proven approach which appears to take the oil from the TOC cavity, through an oil filter under the rear wing and the back into the case here. (red/blue fitting)

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Full flow oil filter
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:13 am 
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The full flow adaptor isn't going to happen. Although I could TIG closed the hole that is off, re-drill and reface the adaptor, the more severe problem, of course is the oil pump drive gears especially as there is a mech tach drive sticking it's nose out. So it's a no no. The engine I have was rebuilt by a known and respected company of Porsche engineers and runs strong but I have desires for a very healthy 2 litre power plant with fairly major head work and cam to match so as a base for this I going on the hunt for a late 912 motor. These are quite rare on the ground here so when I'm over for the Lit Meet in March I shall start some enquires around all the shops we shall be visiting on the pre meet tours. Thanks for all your comments and help.

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