Mating Engine to Bellhousing '58 356A

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Mike Wilson
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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#16 Post by Mike Wilson »

As Rolly observed, if the mount bolts face the wrong way, the engine won't clear. Here's another one we recently encountered. The lower studs on some mounts are too long and will also interfer. They have to be ground down or cut shorter for clearance.

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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#17 Post by Mike Wilson »

Hey, Jim. Did you figure it out?

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Jim Alton
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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#18 Post by Jim Alton »

Nope, it's still stuck a bit less than an inch from mating. I can't get it off either.

Maybe the clutch got misaligned somewhere in the process of pulling the engine or early in putting it back on but I can't confirm that. I can't see how the missing 17 mm socket could have found its way in there and even if it somehow did that shouldn't affect getting the engine to move off the transmission shaft.

I've lately been trying to get at least a diagonally opposed top bolt and bottom stud started in hope I might force it on. I even got a pair of slightly longer bolts. It's also occurred to me that it might be possible to crack the bellhousing or engine case that way.

Anybody know how to get a recalcitrant engine back off the transmission shaft?
 
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Doug McDonnell
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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#19 Post by Doug McDonnell »

The one time I had it happen I gently raised and lowered the jack a little with a helper tipping the engine forward/backwards sideways etc until it all came loose. It might be easier if you raise the front of the car with another jack so car is level.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Jim Alton
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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#20 Post by Jim Alton »

Doug McDonnell wrote:The one time I had it happen I gently raised and lowered the jack a little with a helper tipping the engine forward/backwards sideways etc until it all came loose. It might be easier if you raise the front of the car with another jack so car is level.
Thanks. The car is level but getting a helper's a chellenge.
 
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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#21 Post by Doug McDonnell »

Mike Wilson is retired. I would offer to help but am in Michigan. Whatever you do don't try to force it into mating. Gently raise your jack minimally while rocking the fan housing forward and back then same with minimally lowering the jack. With or without a helper it should come free. You may have to swear in German while you try my suggestions. I almost dropped my engine when it came loose because it was no longer centered on the jack. Jim Look very closely at the studs alignment to the holes, I bet the engine case is hung up on the threads of the studs.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#22 Post by Jim Alton »

I've studied German and Russian, sadly, my swearing's better in Russian.

I'm pretty sure the studs are not the problem. They're almost through the holes in the bellhousing and I can move them a couple millimeters.
 
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Martin Benade
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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#23 Post by Martin Benade »

Any chance either of the studs got bent, that would give you this kind of problem. I wouldn't draw it in with the bolts, but I would not be afraid to pry out pretty hard, maybe a crowbar on each side. You also could use masking tape to hold a socket (maybe a 19mm 3/8 drive) at top center between the mounting flanges. Using that to prevent the engine from rocking up, then use the crowbar at bottom center. This should give a lot of force to pull outwards.
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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#24 Post by Vic Skirmants »

I'm thinking you're hung up on a transmission mount stud. Try turning the engine with a wrench; bet the flywheel is stuck to something.

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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#25 Post by E Rutherford »

Jim I had the same issue with my 58 recently (including getting it stuck!) and even though I did get the engine in and mated, I'm not sure where the hangup was.

It doesn't take much for the flywheel to jam against the bell housing. As Vic said, turn the flywheel to see if you are jammed. If the flywheel is crooked then you should hear a scrapping noise as the ring gear rubs against the bell housing. If you rotate the flywheel and you feel a hard notching turn, the ring gear is hitting a bolt.

If the engine is stuck, go underneath as Martin has suggested and pry side to side until its free again. Be careful not to damage the mating surfaces of the engine and bell housing. Use something soft, wood or wrap tape around your prying tool. The engine doesn't have to back out all the way, just free to move. Since you are doing this alone. I would use your long bolts at the top to safety keep the engine from going somewhere unexpected while you are underneath trying to free it.

Once its free, can you rotate the flywheel? Is it free of the noises described above? If it is, next step.

Leave those long top bolts in, shove the engine as far as you can and maybe you hear that wonderful "clunk" against the transmission! Most likely not :(

Can you see the bottom studs coming though the bell housing? If you can see them and get a nut started on them, the main shaft is through the clutch disc and partially in the gland nut. You should be able to draw the engine in with the bottom studs.

If you can't see the bottom studs and you can't shove the engine in any further, use your extra long bolt on top to draw the engine in. The lowers will follow just from the weight of the engine. Keep rocking the flywheel back and forth to be sure your not jamming against anything. Once the lowers appear and you can get a nut on them, use these to make the final draw in. The flywheel should be free of obstruction (you hope!)

All this started with changing the starter bushing!!

Keep us posted

ed
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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#26 Post by Mike Wilson »

Jim:

Keep us posted. Doug is right, I am retired but my hobby job is assisting Ed at Klasse 356. If all else fails, I'll make a road trip to give you a hand. Ed and I have been using an aluminum motorcycle jack with custom extensions to make r & r of engines much easier.

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Jim Alton
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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#27 Post by Jim Alton »

The lower studs on the engine case are just about flush with the front of the surface of the bellhousing. I've been able to barely get a nut on one--and only one--stud.

I can turn the engine with a wrench. Part of the turn, something like 15° there's a little grinding feel, then maybe 15° to 20° without grinding, etc.

I can see up through the gap at the bottom (although not well) and it doesn't look like anything's caught on the flywheel.

A few folks mentioned the flywheel hanging up on studs. Clearly, the flywheel can't hang up on the mounting studs at the bottom of the engine case. Could somebody clarify which studs might be a problem?
 
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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#28 Post by Jim Alton »

Vic Skirmant's reply in a different thread reminded me that I need to take the starter out to get the 110 mm bolt in. I'll try that next.
 
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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#29 Post by Doug McDonnell »

Starter only needs to come out to about 45 degrees then put 110 mm bolt in.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Re: Mating Engine to Ballhousing '58 356A

#30 Post by E Rutherford »

When the trans mounts get changed, there are 4 studs that stick up through the bell housing. They are nutted in a relief in the bell housing, those studs can be a little long on the replacements mounts and will hit the flywheel (personal experience)!

At this point you are feeling a grinding when rotating the flywheel. It needs to come back out and be clear of the bell housing to inspect the issue. Sorry but that is the next step.

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