Fluid Leak
- David Jones
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Re: Fluid Leak
Eric, I used 1.25 square inch tube and drilled holes just big enough to take the 19mm sockets. I would suggest allowing a gap of one stud to get extra leverage on the bar when fitted across two studs. If we assume you weigh around 160 Lb or as you are in Europe around 75 Kg then with your weight 3 ft or 1 metre out you will be close to the required 350 plus ft lb. Remember that it only needs to be approximate because adjustment will need to be made due to final positioning of hole alignment. The axle has 4 holes so with 6 holes in the nut there is a lot of allowance for hole alignment
I weighed around 160 when I was racing and I had to remove and replace my rear drums frequently so got very adept at the task. I would put all my weight on the 4ft breaker bar with my hands between 3 and 4 ft. I would then look at where the holes lined up for the cotter pin. If they lined up I put the pin in and went on track. When I came back to the paddock I would pull the cotter pin and check for tightness. If all was good I buttoned it back up. I also did not use the standard cotter pin but the hairpin style. I still use them on the 356 because if I ever need to remove the drum they are easier to remove than standard cotters.
https://www.grainger.com/product/3DYT4? ... Type%5EPLA
Any hardware store will carry them.
I will edit this later today with pictures showing my set up. If all is not clear ask and I shall elucidate.
I weighed around 160 when I was racing and I had to remove and replace my rear drums frequently so got very adept at the task. I would put all my weight on the 4ft breaker bar with my hands between 3 and 4 ft. I would then look at where the holes lined up for the cotter pin. If they lined up I put the pin in and went on track. When I came back to the paddock I would pull the cotter pin and check for tightness. If all was good I buttoned it back up. I also did not use the standard cotter pin but the hairpin style. I still use them on the 356 because if I ever need to remove the drum they are easier to remove than standard cotters.
https://www.grainger.com/product/3DYT4? ... Type%5EPLA
Any hardware store will carry them.
I will edit this later today with pictures showing my set up. If all is not clear ask and I shall elucidate.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
- Eric McKinley
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:09 pm
- Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Re: Fluid Leak
David, thank you very much for your detailed reply.
It has very much made things a lot clearer.
I like the idea of using the other fasteners instead of the cotter pins.
I have tried to open your link however it will not open.
Could you post the size of clip you use David.
It has very much made things a lot clearer.
I like the idea of using the other fasteners instead of the cotter pins.
I have tried to open your link however it will not open.
Could you post the size of clip you use David.
- Wes Bender
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Somewhere in the Gadsden Purchase, USA
Re: Fluid Leak
3-5/16" long x 9/64" diameter. Link worked for me.....
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.....
- David Jones
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Re: Fluid Leak
1/8" or 9/64" whichever fits snugly. Cheaper in the long run than standard cotter pins as you can use over and over until you mislay one.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
- Wes Bender
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:54 am
- Location: Somewhere in the Gadsden Purchase, USA
Re: Fluid Leak
... or about a week for me.
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.....
- Eric McKinley
- 356 Fan
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Re: Fluid Leak
David,
You will understand me coming from Wales, I get confused by imperial measurements, can you advise what the measurement of the R clip would be in metric.
For instance the size of the cotter pin would be 4.5. X 45.
Many Thanks.
You will understand me coming from Wales, I get confused by imperial measurements, can you advise what the measurement of the R clip would be in metric.
For instance the size of the cotter pin would be 4.5. X 45.
Many Thanks.
-
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Re: Fluid Leak
I use the bathroom scale technique. Measure out 4 feet on the bar, stand on the scale and push down. For every pound you lose on the scale you are adding 4 ft-lbs to the nut. When your weight is reduced by 100 pounds there are 400 ft-lbs applied to the nut.
Felix
Felix
- David Jones
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Re: Fluid Leak
There are two things to consider on the rear axle nut.
#1 is that the torque value given in the manuals is different for the "A" and B/C The A is given as 267 ft/lb and the C is given as 400 ft/lb. Quite a large difference though in reality on the ground not so much as once you get over 300 ft/lb the amount the nut moves on the shaft is very little. I always used 350 on the Vee race car and then tightened the nut if necessary to align the cotter pin holes. Never back the nut off to attain alignment. I never had a drum come loose with 350 ft/lb. Maybe Vic or CJ would comment on the values used for the 356 for racing.
#2 is that the cotter pin is only there to prevent the nut from falling off, thereby reducing the chance of losing the drum and wheel. It is not there to prevent the nut from coming loose as many have found when the wrong washer was used.
#1 is that the torque value given in the manuals is different for the "A" and B/C The A is given as 267 ft/lb and the C is given as 400 ft/lb. Quite a large difference though in reality on the ground not so much as once you get over 300 ft/lb the amount the nut moves on the shaft is very little. I always used 350 on the Vee race car and then tightened the nut if necessary to align the cotter pin holes. Never back the nut off to attain alignment. I never had a drum come loose with 350 ft/lb. Maybe Vic or CJ would comment on the values used for the 356 for racing.
#2 is that the cotter pin is only there to prevent the nut from falling off, thereby reducing the chance of losing the drum and wheel. It is not there to prevent the nut from coming loose as many have found when the wrong washer was used.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
-
- 356 Fan
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Re: Fluid Leak
Eric,
According to PET the cotter pin is a 5 x 45 .
Download the PET it has valuable info, I do not know how accurate it is , but for me is enough.
https://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/o ... ATALOG.pdf
According to PET the cotter pin is a 5 x 45 .
Download the PET it has valuable info, I do not know how accurate it is , but for me is enough.
https://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/o ... ATALOG.pdf
- Eric McKinley
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Re: Fluid Leak
All good information, thank you again for all the help given in relation to this.
I feel I have a good grasp on what is required in relation to completing this job now.
I especially like the idea of using a different style clip at the axle nut which is easier to remove, thanks for that David.
Hugo, your correct the PET has been an invaluable tool during my restoration.
I feel I have a good grasp on what is required in relation to completing this job now.
I especially like the idea of using a different style clip at the axle nut which is easier to remove, thanks for that David.
Hugo, your correct the PET has been an invaluable tool during my restoration.
- Eric McKinley
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Re: Fluid Leak
David,
A question in relation to the bar you made.
Can I ask what length you made yours.
Many Thanks.
A question in relation to the bar you made.
Can I ask what length you made yours.
Many Thanks.
- David Jones
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Re: Fluid Leak
It is about 3 feet if you mean my locking bar with the sockets but in reality it only needs to be long enough to reach the floor and stop the drum rotating.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
- Doug McDonnell
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Re: Fluid Leak
I have "Big Bertha" a 36mm socket welded to a 3 ft pipe.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.
- Eric McKinley
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:09 pm
- Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Re: Fluid Leak
David,
I got a very simple bar fabricated to start tackling this job.
If I go back a few steps, the transmission and the axles were rebuilt about 5 years back by a reputable company in the states before I brought the car over, it has been in a state of restoration since this.
When I filled the transmission with oil after a period of time I noticed an amount of it coming out of a small tube in the axle, probably due to a seal failure.
When I started the strip down I noticed how easy the axle nut was to get off, definitely not at anything like the 400 ft lbs it should be.
When I pulled the hub a small cup full of transmission oil poured out, I didn't raise the axle as suggested.
Now here is the question I am hoping you can offer some advise on.
I have decided to try tightening the new axle nut to the correct torque before stripping everything down and changing seals, is there a possibility that it could have simply have been the axle nut not being tight, as I mentioned it was very loose.
I have done this and turned the hub so the slinger tube is at the lowest point, no oil coming out as yet, however the car is on stands, should the car be back on its wheels before the oil can make its way back down the axle tube, to give it a chance to leak or hopefully not.
I got a very simple bar fabricated to start tackling this job.
If I go back a few steps, the transmission and the axles were rebuilt about 5 years back by a reputable company in the states before I brought the car over, it has been in a state of restoration since this.
When I filled the transmission with oil after a period of time I noticed an amount of it coming out of a small tube in the axle, probably due to a seal failure.
When I started the strip down I noticed how easy the axle nut was to get off, definitely not at anything like the 400 ft lbs it should be.
When I pulled the hub a small cup full of transmission oil poured out, I didn't raise the axle as suggested.
Now here is the question I am hoping you can offer some advise on.
I have decided to try tightening the new axle nut to the correct torque before stripping everything down and changing seals, is there a possibility that it could have simply have been the axle nut not being tight, as I mentioned it was very loose.
I have done this and turned the hub so the slinger tube is at the lowest point, no oil coming out as yet, however the car is on stands, should the car be back on its wheels before the oil can make its way back down the axle tube, to give it a chance to leak or hopefully not.
- Dave Wildrick
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Houston, TX
Re: Fluid Leak
If the axle ends are unsupported, oil will drain down to the lowest point of the axle tube.EricMcKinley wrote: no oil coming out as yet, however the car is on stands, should the car be back on its wheels before the oil can make its way back down the axle tube, to give it a chance to leak or hopefully not.
Dave Wildrick
Houston, TX
#10230
64C coupe
65C coupe
Houston, TX
#10230
64C coupe
65C coupe