Quick oil cooler question

[Sean M Rooks]

Hi folks,

I've pulled the engine in my C coupe to clean it and refinish the tins. I'm examining all the bits and pieces to make sure things are as they should be. It looks like the previous owner installed a 912 oil cooler in the car, which I've read on this site isn't the best thing to do. Here's a photo of the cooler with the fan shroud off:

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I decided to pull the oil cooler off to see if maybe that was one source of a few slow drips on the bottom of my engine. Does this install look correct? I haven't seen these black rubber grommets on other installs:



Bottom of the cooler:


The mounting flange under those grommets is flat, not recessed. Are those red seals the correct ones? Should I replace this with an aluminum cooler that is hard mounted and flush to the flange?

I was looking at Willhoit's cooler and it appears the cooler has two sets of seals - (the photo shows some already in the cooler) will this be all the seals I need?

http://willhoit-auto-restoration.mybigc ... il-cooler/

My original plan was to clean the motor really well, reinstall it and do a quick run with some UV dye to see the sources of the leaks and tackle them at a later date as the leaks were never that bad. But now I'm wondering if I should just replace this thing while the motor is out. These coolers are pricey and it will kind of blow my budget.

PS: from what I can tell from numbers on the case, it's a 616/12 which is a Super 90 case?

[Doug McDonnell]

http://www.356a.com/engine_identification.php

[Sean M Rooks]

Thanks Doug. That's the site I used to find out the case deets. I just misremembered. So it's a 1600 Super case from 62-63. It's a bitsa motor for sure.

[Dick Weiss]

Sean,

There's nothing wrong in using a 'soft-mount' oil cooler if the case was modified to use it. Also, the top mount
bushing added to the F/shroud face next to the oil filter.
However, the cooler can be solidly mounted w/the std. seals, but you'll need the special spacers
for the double diameter extended studs to finalize the solid mounting.
To prevent any stress to the mounting pad, I use .010" shims on the face--especially if the cooler's bottom
isn't exactly flat; Aluminum coolers have machined flat faces.

BTW, is oil drips showing up on the left side of the case's top or bottom? OR--around the sump plate?
Are the cheese-head screws (1-on each side of the intake manifold) tight which are holding the vertical &
horizontal side plates to the top of the head? If not, you'll have leaks to the top of the valve cover!

Dick

[Jacques Lefriant]

Hi Sean
you might consider vented valve covers yours look like 912 ones.
j

[John Clarke]

Hi all
We have an Alloy Oil Cooler on the 616/40 912 unit we have installed in the 356 Coupe. Nothing wrong with our original steel cooler, but just installed the lighter unit as a general upgrade prior to installing engine. What was wrong with the 912 Steel cooler? I believe that the 912 cooler had an extra mounting at the top, but still didn't stop the case fractures. Is that correct? We have the spare cooler if anyone needs one.
Cheers Jay.

[Chuck Allard]

Your 912 oil cooler is for a '68 or '69 912. Rubber mounted on the bottom and the top also with a rubber grommet through the fan shroud. The top grommet fits inside your earlier shroud and wasn't used.

[Sean M Rooks]

Sean,

There's nothing wrong in using a 'soft-mount' oil cooler if the case was modified to use it. Also, the top mount
bushing added to the F/shroud face next to the oil filter.
However, the cooler can be solidly mounted w/the std. seals, but you'll need the special spacers
for the double diameter extended studs to finalize the solid mounting.
To prevent any stress to the mounting pad, I use .010" shims on the face--especially if the cooler's bottom
isn't exactly flat; Aluminum coolers have machined flat faces.

BTW, is oil drips showing up on the left side of the case's top or bottom? OR--around the sump plate?
Are the cheese-head screws (1-on each side of the intake manifold) tight which are holding the vertical &
horizontal side plates to the top of the head? If not, you'll have leaks to the top of the valve cover!

Dick

Dick,

As usual - lots of good info here. To make sure I understand, I can mount the cooler with the standard seals, but I'll need to install spacers due to the extended studs. I'm assuming that's because the nuts would bottom out without the additional space. Can you confirm that the shims you speak of are basically washers and go on the top of the mounting flange under the cooler, and the spacers would go on the bottom under the two nuts for a flat-mount of this cooler? what do the seals look like on the flat mount version? Are they basically o-rings? Do they fit in the recess in the mounting flange but sit proud enough to seal to the cooler?

To answer your usually excellent questions: the (very slow) drips are at the boss just below the flywheel (i found this leak - it appears to be coming from the nut on the bottom stud below the cam plug), at the oil pressure relief plug on the bottom of the case, and on the outer cooling fins just under the 3/4 cylinders. The valve covers have always been a bit "moist" but not drippy.

[Sean M Rooks]

Hi Sean
you might consider vented valve covers yours look like 912 ones.
j

Jacques - interesting - one of the valve covers has a screen and vent in it already (must be passenger side). I just bought non-vented covers purposely to replace the vented covers and restore the proper crankcase ventilation through the single-outlet oil filler can to mesh air cleaner. Bad idea?

[Dick Weiss]

Sean,

No washers between the mounting pad and the cooler; I use a hole punch to make shims from .010" sheet stock and either color seals will suffice.
Oil leak from the notch at the center of the case (next to the trans. hoop) would be a slight leak from the F/W seal.
Again, are the cheese head screws tight holding the side-plate sheet metal to the head--other side too?

Finally, which valve cover gasket(s) are you using? I just use the regular rubberized cork gasket glued in w/non-hardening sealant (Permatex #2) and let it get set a little before adding strips to the gasket surface and clamping with spring clips for about hour cure (while servicing the engine--valve settings, ignition; etc.)
I don't like the "loose gasket" falling out when removing the cover.

BTW, any oil showing on the push-rod tubes? Those get wet from the head-bolt O-ring seal(s) above and get your lower air guide(s) or flapper box(es).
Vented valve covers can be plugged, but the ball-check covers can't be used on 912 heads having the blind hole for the center manifold bolt (from above). Are the pressure relief and by-pass valve caps tight?

Dick

[Sean M Rooks]

Sean,

No washers between the mounting pad and the cooler; I use a hole punch to make shims from .010" sheet stock and either color seals will suffice.
Oil leak from the notch at the center of the case (next to the trans. hoop) would be a slight leak from the F/W seal.
Again, are the cheese head screws tight holding the side-plate sheet metal to the head--other side too?

Finally, which valve cover gasket(s) are you using? I just use the regular rubberized cork gasket glued in w/non-hardening sealant (Permatex #2) and let it get set a little before adding strips to the gasket surface and clamping with spring clips for about hour cure (while servicing the engine--valve settings, ignition; etc.)
I don't like the "loose gasket" falling out when removing the cover.

BTW, any oil showing on the push-rod tubes? Those get wet from the head-bolt O-ring seal(s) above and get your lower air guide(s) or flapper box(es).
Vented valve covers can be plugged, but the ball-check covers can't be used on 912 heads having the blind hole for the center manifold bolt (from above). Are the pressure relief and by-pass valve caps tight?

Dick

I love this site. The knowledge here is incredible. I'll try to answer everything as best I can.

For the leak at the tab at the front of the case near the hoop, I've already confirmed that it's a leak from the nut at the bottom stud below the cam plug. Even with the case empty of oil, it's leaking there as we speak. Flywheel seal looked fine and dry, but I have a replacement seal and may do it anyway.

I was out in the garage and confirmed that the drivers side valve cover has no vents and the passenger side has one that is open with a screen. No ball check that I can see (I know what those look like). I have non-vented covers to replace these with.

The valve covers use the metal core seals from Vic. I like them better than the glued in variety. I didn't like cleaning old glue from the valve cover flange and I feel like they seal better.

The cheese head screws are obviously removed as all the tin is off, but they seemed to be tight before I removed them. I'm assuming you mean the screws that go right into the head on either side of the intake ports and are exposed to oil? I can't recall seeing any other screw holes for the tins that penetrate the case. Maybe I should try a different washer on those?

Good question on the push rods. I believe I did see a drop or two. And the top of the flapper boxes were wet from oil. Where are the o-rings? Are they on the head bolts inside the valve cover, I think under the rockers?

Pardon my stupidity, beyond a valve adjustment I haven't delved into the motor.

Last the pressure release valve plug looks tight with copper washers. What do you tighten them with? Just looks like a big ass slotted screw on the top!

[Sean M Rooks]

912 heads having the blind hole for the center manifold bolt (from above).

Dick

Dick can you describe this a little better? My manifolds mounted with three studs...two short ones and one long stud to the top center of the manifold.

[Vic Skirmants]

The intake manifold center mounting hardware should be a bolt; it it's a stud, somebody installed that not at the factory.

[Sean M Rooks]

Thanks, Vic. Not the first thing I found that was wrong. It's a long stud so I'll go searching for the right bolt. Shoulda checked PET.

He also used bolts for the bottom two mounts of the case to the trans. I think I found they should be studs so bought a couple.

[Gary Koehler]

Sean,

About that big-ass slot in the screw head: find your self a big-ass washer that's a couple of thou. wider than the slot, file a flat so that it enters full depth, chamfer the edges and and tap it in. It'll stay there until you re-install the screw. Then just tap it lengthwise in the slot and it'll pop right out. If the slot is buggered it may also smooth that out as well.