356 Engine Oil Analysis
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:29 am
356 Engine Oil Analysis
I recently sent an engine oil sample to Mobil's lubricant analysis service, which among other results performs a spectrographic analysis of metals in used engine or transaxle oil by ppm. Very informative---if I had a baseline of what ppm breakdown is representative of 'normal' wear, to compare with my results. Does anyone know where I could find such info...racer, engine builder, race shop...? Many thanks
Sam Shiver
1964 Champagne Yellow 356C coupe
Marshall, North Carolina
1964 Champagne Yellow 356C coupe
Marshall, North Carolina
- Ron LaDow
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 8092
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:45 am
- Location: San Francisco
Re: 356 Engine Oil Analysis
Sam,
I used Analysts Inc when I was servicing the Cosworth, and they told me what the typical ranges were.
But I also had to spec fuels, operating speed range, any oil additions, and three or four other details.
I used Analysts Inc when I was servicing the Cosworth, and they told me what the typical ranges were.
But I also had to spec fuels, operating speed range, any oil additions, and three or four other details.
Ron LaDow
www.precisionmatters.biz
www.precisionmatters.biz
- David Jones
- Classifieds Moderator
- Posts: 7341
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:32 pm
- Tag: I wish I knew as much as I think I know.
- Location: Kentucky
Re: 356 Engine Oil Analysis
How about this. Quick Google result.
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/report-explanation.php
After reading the report it re-enforces my decision to continue running Shell Rotella. Note that the ZDDP levels are pretty much where the recommended levels should be for our engines.
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/report-explanation.php
After reading the report it re-enforces my decision to continue running Shell Rotella. Note that the ZDDP levels are pretty much where the recommended levels should be for our engines.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
- Charles H Jacobus
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 493
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 5:02 pm
- Location: Dallas, TX
Re: 356 Engine Oil Analysis
David:Shell Rotella does have high ZDDP levels. Do you know of a Porsche recommended ZDDP level for our cars because the oil they make for our engines is not as high as Rotella.
Sam:
Here are three samples that I have had analysed. You can see the virgin Porsche Classic (20W/50) has high levels of TBN and not so high levels of ZDDP. Both the Boxster and 991 have good wear numbers. The Boxster had Valvoline synthetic and the 991 had Mobile 1. I'm planning on trying the Classic in my 356C to see how the wear compares. I'll post the results. I had a long converstion with a tech there and his bottom line was TBN level for the Classic was excellent and they don't see much wear difference with 700 ZDDP VS 1200. There is also a newsletter which goes into the question which oil is better. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newslet ... 1-2017.php
Chuck
Sam:
Here are three samples that I have had analysed. You can see the virgin Porsche Classic (20W/50) has high levels of TBN and not so high levels of ZDDP. Both the Boxster and 991 have good wear numbers. The Boxster had Valvoline synthetic and the 991 had Mobile 1. I'm planning on trying the Classic in my 356C to see how the wear compares. I'll post the results. I had a long converstion with a tech there and his bottom line was TBN level for the Classic was excellent and they don't see much wear difference with 700 ZDDP VS 1200. There is also a newsletter which goes into the question which oil is better. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newslet ... 1-2017.php
Chuck
- Attachments
-
- Blackstone lab Mobile 1 991.pdf
- (17.4 KiB) Downloaded 49 times
-
- Blackstone lab Valvoline synthetic.pdf
- (17.39 KiB) Downloaded 40 times
-
- Blackstone lab virgin classic.pdf
- (17.29 KiB) Downloaded 48 times
Last edited by Charles H Jacobus on Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current:
2012 Silver 991
1995 Midnight blue 993
1965 Red 356C
Past:
Fond memories of 14 others (including a '63 Normal and a 61 S90)
2012 Silver 991
1995 Midnight blue 993
1965 Red 356C
Past:
Fond memories of 14 others (including a '63 Normal and a 61 S90)
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:55 pm
Re: 356 Engine Oil Analysis
I just went to my local store last week to buy more Shell Rotella T 15-40 diesel oil and they now only sell Rotella T-4. It looks like it is a newer blend that meets the latest federal requirements. Does anyone know if they have dropped the ZDDP down to below what out flat-tappet engines need?
- David Jones
- Classifieds Moderator
- Posts: 7341
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:32 pm
- Tag: I wish I knew as much as I think I know.
- Location: Kentucky
Re: 356 Engine Oil Analysis
One can always switch to Chevron Delo 15/40 which is my fall back choice.
SAE Grade 15W-40
Product Number 222220
MSDS Number 17108
API Gravity 29.1
Viscosity, Kinematic cSt at 40°C 125, cSt at 100°C 15.7
Cold Crank, C/Poise -20/64
Viscosity Index 131
Flash Point, °C(°F) 204(399)
Pour Point, °C(°F) -30(-22)
Sulfated Ash, wt % 1.0
Base Number, ASTM D 2896 9.6
Sulfur, wt % 0.32
Phosphorus, wt % 0.12
Zinc, wt % 0.13
SAE Grade 15W-40
Product Number 222220
MSDS Number 17108
API Gravity 29.1
Viscosity, Kinematic cSt at 40°C 125, cSt at 100°C 15.7
Cold Crank, C/Poise -20/64
Viscosity Index 131
Flash Point, °C(°F) 204(399)
Pour Point, °C(°F) -30(-22)
Sulfated Ash, wt % 1.0
Base Number, ASTM D 2896 9.6
Sulfur, wt % 0.32
Phosphorus, wt % 0.12
Zinc, wt % 0.13
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
- Robert Harrington
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:33 pm
- Location: Fort Worth Texas
Re: 356 Engine Oil Analysis
Prior to going into the Navy I worked at the Pennzoil lab in Los Angeles. One of my jobs was to analyze oil samples brought in from a mining company every month. We tested them for viscosity and also the spectrographic analysis. Your question of having a baseline or some other point of reference, I don't think we had one. What we did to was chart them according to vehicle or truck number and watch them from month to month to look for significant deviations and/or metals which would have been revealed in the spectrographic analysis. That was the only point of reference.
Interesting job though, we once had a sample submitted from a car dealership in which a customer was demanding that the dealership replace his engine, which had burned up. I had to actually heat the sample can to get it to pour out for testing. Even heated, it was like slow moving mud. No deal. This failed engine was not the fault of the dealer but of the idiot that wouldn't change his oil.
Also, I used to test newly vated oil before it was canned. This was kind of neat, the old Pennzoil with Z-7. The plant would usually bring in a liter of oil. I would run a viscosity check and if it was good, the plant would process filling the quart cans. It didn't take more than a few ounces to make the check so I would keep the rest and when I had collected enough I would use that to change the oil in my 356.
Interesting job though, we once had a sample submitted from a car dealership in which a customer was demanding that the dealership replace his engine, which had burned up. I had to actually heat the sample can to get it to pour out for testing. Even heated, it was like slow moving mud. No deal. This failed engine was not the fault of the dealer but of the idiot that wouldn't change his oil.
Also, I used to test newly vated oil before it was canned. This was kind of neat, the old Pennzoil with Z-7. The plant would usually bring in a liter of oil. I would run a viscosity check and if it was good, the plant would process filling the quart cans. It didn't take more than a few ounces to make the check so I would keep the rest and when I had collected enough I would use that to change the oil in my 356.
Robert Harrington
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1139
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:35 pm
Re: 356 Engine Oil Analysis
ZDDP ranks right up there with the gluten scare.
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:29 am
Re: 356 Engine Oil Analysis
Gents, thanks to all. I'll keep looking for a 356 baseline reference, and will post it if/when I find it. There's bound to be one somewhere...it was standard to have one per engine type in my former military aviation life.
Sam Shiver
1964 Champagne Yellow 356C coupe
Marshall, North Carolina
1964 Champagne Yellow 356C coupe
Marshall, North Carolina
- Charles H Jacobus
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 493
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 5:02 pm
- Location: Dallas, TX
Re: 356 Engine Oil Analysis
Just saw a very interesting Mobile 1 oil analysis. It's about 22 minutes Here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-zDt9FGJi8
Chuck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-zDt9FGJi8
Chuck
Current:
2012 Silver 991
1995 Midnight blue 993
1965 Red 356C
Past:
Fond memories of 14 others (including a '63 Normal and a 61 S90)
2012 Silver 991
1995 Midnight blue 993
1965 Red 356C
Past:
Fond memories of 14 others (including a '63 Normal and a 61 S90)