DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

356 Porsche-related discussions and questions.
Message
Author
User avatar
Steve Swift
356 Fan
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:24 am
Contact:

DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#1 Post by Steve Swift » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:35 pm

I just dropped off my freshly restored 62 S-90 at the shop to have a few things set right before I sell it. There was a " professionally " restored car with very low mileage in for a smoking problem. The oil filler had been media blasted and powder coated by a noted restorer. Yep, the inside of the filler still had lots of media. 12K for a total rebuild. Even if you clean everything, after a few heat cycles, the grit comes out. Never use media on parts that see oil and always drill, clean, and plug oil gallery's. Even new cranks have junk in them. Ron Ladow's full flow oil filter is extremely cheap insurance.

Dan Epperly
356 Fan
Posts: 1032
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#2 Post by Dan Epperly » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:49 pm

Steve Swift wrote:I just dropped off my freshly restored 62 S-90 at the shop to have a few things set right before I sell it. There was a " professionally " restored car with very low mileage in for a smoking problem. The oil filler had been media blasted and powder coated by a noted restorer. Yep, the inside of the filler still had lots of media. 12K for a total rebuild. Even if you clean everything, after a few heat cycles, the grit comes out. Never use media on parts that see oil and always drill, clean, and plug oil gallery's. Even new cranks have junk in them. Ron Ladow's full flow oil filter is extremely cheap insurance.

I would add beware of media blasted cases. I know of a situation where a noted builder of VW 36 hp engines built one and sent it to the customer with the flywheel seal drain plug clogged with media. Engine kept blowing flywheel seals and the owners mechanic couldn't figure out why until he tried to shove a wire through them packed mess.

User avatar
Ron LaDow
356 Fan
Posts: 6644
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:45 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#3 Post by Ron LaDow » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:35 pm

Steve Swift wrote:[...]Never use media on parts that see oil and always drill, clean, and plug oil gallery's. Even new cranks have junk in them. Ron Ladow's full flow oil filter is extremely cheap insurance.
Thanks for the plug, but I'll take one exception: After powder coating the filler can, I used Ken Daugherty's (RIP) process to coat the inside with that red electrical paint (Glyptal?). After near 15 years, I look in there and see red paint.
But you are largely correct and Dan is also correct: If it sees oil, NO glass or sand blasting!
Regarding filtration, one of my commercial accounts will not run a fresh rebuild on the stand without full-flow; by now you don't know what is going to get released from the passages. If the customer won't pay for a full-flow, the builder fits his inventoried (PreMat) unit and does the test runs, and then refits the original pump cover.
Ron LaDow
www.precisionmatters.biz

User avatar
Bob Kittel
356 Fan
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:12 am
Location: Long Beach, California

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#4 Post by Bob Kittel » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:05 am

If a canister is powder coated then how would the interior be cleaned of media? Is there microscopic particles inbedded on the interior? Are we talking about canister inside walls or the oil passages? Trying to figure this one out. Then for Ron, how did you clean the interior before painting with the glyptal?
Bob Kittel

User avatar
Ron Delmendo
356 Fan
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:54 am

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#5 Post by Ron Delmendo » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:47 am

Someone (Dave Wildrick?) must have Harry's posts from the old 356Talk on powder coating oil fillers, filters etc. Was very entertaining back in the day...

Bob, if memory serves the issue is not with powder coating residue, it's with the media typically used in preparation. If the filler was solvent stripped and then powder coated, I think the consensus was that you would be ok.
Cheers,

Ron

'61 Roadster Outlaw
'69 911E ROW Coupe
'68 911 SWT project
‘18 Macan

User avatar
Dave Wildrick
356 Fan
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:10 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#6 Post by Dave Wildrick » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:06 am

Ron LaDow wrote:
Steve Swift wrote:[...]Never use media on parts that see oil and always drill, clean, and plug oil gallery's. Even new cranks have junk in them. Ron Ladow's full flow oil filter is extremely cheap insurance.
Thanks for the plug, but I'll take one exception: After powder coating the filler can, I used Ken Daugherty's (RIP) process to coat the inside with that red electrical paint (Glyptal?). After near 15 years, I look in there and see red paint.
Here's what Ken Daugherty said some years ago:
[Actually I coat the inside of the oil filler/breather. Prior to coating it I clean it thoroughly with carb cleaner,
Blech White, lots of hot water to rinse and assure that there is no
remaining grease or glass beads etc.
Then I send it to be powder coated with instructions not to get
any inside the can.
When it returns, I inspect it to assure it is still clean and then I
tape it off so not to get any red coloring on the fresh powder coated
exterior. The next step is a bit tricky. Do this on a bright sunny day
so you have plenty of light to see that the red has covered everything
especially when working with the late C/912 breathers. Spray the red
inside and roll it around to thoroughly coat the inside, Using the
sunshine to help inspect the covering.
The clear is a bit more difficult to see if covered well, but it
does work.
I have never worried about the oil filter can. Its coated with
oil so rust is not the issue as is the breather where water vapor does
collect and generate scum and rust. The red Glyptex paint is a varnish and resists moisture very well in this application.
Hope this helps.
Ken Daugherty
kend356@insightbb.com]

I added the following from another of Ken’s posts: [Glyptex is aka Krylon #1385 Red Insulating Varnish; the upc is 2450401385; also comes in clear #7001 for those that don't want the 'original rust red color' for the inside of your filler can.]
Dave Wildrick
Houston, TX
#10230
64C coupe
65C coupe

User avatar
Dave Wildrick
356 Fan
Posts: 1821
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:10 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#7 Post by Dave Wildrick » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:14 am

Ron Delmendo wrote:Someone (Dave Wildrick?) must have Harry's posts from the old 356Talk on powder coating oil fillers, filters etc. Was very entertaining back in the day...
Here's the Maestro on oil filler can treatment:

[.....(So, how DO you deal with the Oil Filler Can, anyway? I hear you cry.

.....The Maestro's Technique for Dealing With the Oil Filler Can (and you gotta do SOMETHING with them- the rust Stalagmites and Stalactites that sometimes form inside are as bad as sand when they flake off and fall into the Cam Gears).

.....So: first put the Oil Filler Can in good Carburetor Cleaner to remove as much of the Oil, Grease, Rust, Paint & Crud as possible.

.....Rinse well in the Safety-Kleen tank.

.....Let the Oil Filler Can relax for a few days in the Warm California Sun.

.....Once completely dry, place the Oil Filler Can in a GE Nuclear Toaster Oven on "Broil" and heat to 450-500 degrees F for a half an hour or 45 minutes or so.

.....Once well "Toasted", all the Organic Material (oil, blowby crud, etc.) inside is turned into Carbon, and there are no "moist", sticky hiding places for beads or sand to latch onto.

.....While hot, bead blast the can both Inside and Out. Blow out thoroughly. Especially thoroughly.

.....Powder Paint the INSIDE of the Oil Filler Can too, so that the Can's insides won't rust anymore. (Also the powder fuses and traps any remaining beads inside an epoxy-like coating matrix, so they can't come out and bite your engine.)

.....It's either that or buy a new Oil Filler can! (For a 356A/B they're only a mere $347, according to a Large Midwestern Porsche Place as of 22 Sept 1997). And who knows what's inside THEM after 30 years on the shelf?

.....Yeah, you gotta be a little scared when doing an Oil Filler Can. But ifin it's rusty inside (and they usually are), you gotta bite the bullet and do it.

.....You also gotta:

.....Keep the 356 Faith The Maestro]

Personally, I would not take a chance on media blasting the inside of the oil FILLER can and would go with Ken Daugherty's method instead for both that and the oil FILTER can.
Dave Wildrick
Houston, TX
#10230
64C coupe
65C coupe

User avatar
Sebastian Gaeta
356 Fan
Posts: 2613
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:50 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#8 Post by Sebastian Gaeta » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:50 pm

Also take a good look at your original OEL cap. Crud can form between the lining inside the cap and the outer shell. Tap it against something and then shake it. If anything is loose inside there, either use a different one, properly repair the one you have or buy a new reproduction cap. The stuff you hear inside of it will find its way down into the filler.
Sebastian Gaeta
www.arbormotion.com

Registry #8339

'65 C coupe
'64 C cab
--------
2005 997 C2 Cab
2001 996 C4
1998 Boxster
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle

User avatar
Ibrahim Kuzu
356 Fan
Posts: 575
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:15 am

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#9 Post by Ibrahim Kuzu » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:34 pm

Maybe it is time some one making 356 oil cans A and C in 100% Stainless Steel or Aluminum
as this VW parts maker did ( picture is from Samba )
I like his work and only $250 ( I am not advertising any one here ) just pointing out
solution for safe running new engines...
IK
Attachments
20170729_151746_resized.jpg

User avatar
Bruce Smith
356 Fan
Posts: 747
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:47 am
Location: Rochester, NY
Contact:

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#10 Post by Bruce Smith » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:47 am

Timely post, thanks guys. I'm working on a later (C) oil filler can and you saved me some research. Cheers.
Bruce

'60 356B (Ivory cab)
'63 356B (Ruby Red coupe)
'67 912 (Rally car)
'68 912 (Golden Green)
'70 911T (Bahia Red)
'14 911-50th (GTS)
'18 Beck 550 Spyder (356C motor)
'62 Austin Mini (850 stock)

User avatar
Ronald Sieber
356 Fan
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:48 pm
Location: Hillsborough, NC
Contact:

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#11 Post by Ronald Sieber » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:59 pm

Thanks for posting this! I am preparing two 912 oil filler cans to be cleansed using the Maestro method (dipped, stripped, baked), and then powder coat outside, paint a la Daugherty inside. Both of my cans have interior surface rust, with the can on my running 912 containing the dreaded "milkshake froth" due to the PO trying to be environmentally conscious and rigging up his own version of oil filler can breather. It trapped the moisture at the top and formed a foam, and little droplets of suspended rust were making their way down the oil filler when I caught them. I am going to re-rig it as original, with the big vent tube connecting to the air filer.

No particles were found in the changed oil & filter, and I wiped inside bottom of case but no particles there either. I am hoping that I caught all of the crud and that the above-mentioned solutions that members have posted works for me and others. I would sure jump on a stainless oil filler can product (powder-coated exterior) if someone were to make one. The current situation is a time-bomb waiting to happen!

BTW, as far as my 356A oil can, it has no such problems. Go figure...

User avatar
Dennis Vogel
356 Fan
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:10 pm
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Contact:

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#12 Post by Dennis Vogel » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:30 am

This thread has been very helpful to someone neck deep in rebuilding the engine, and trying to work with some original parts like the oil filler. It does raise some additional question for me:
  1. For interior rust, why not use purpose specific solvent like Evapo-Rust
  2. Would putting the filler in a parts washer after media blasting and / or powder coating not remove the unwanted prep and blasting residue?
I'm sure there's a reason, but I'm completely new to this. Just asking questions to avoid learning the hard way if possible. :wink: Thanks.
1960 356 S90 Sunroof Coupe
2014 Carrera S

User avatar
Vic Skirmants
356 Registry Member
Posts: 7281
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:02 pm
Location: SE Michigan

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#13 Post by Vic Skirmants » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:06 am

"Would putting the filler in a parts washer after media blasting and / or powder coating not remove the unwanted prep and blasting residue?"
No guarantee. Better not to.

User avatar
Matthew Devereux
356 Fan
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:36 am
Location: Alberta

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#14 Post by Matthew Devereux » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:23 am

Ron LaDow wrote:T....to coat the inside with that red electrical paint (Glyptal?). After near 15 years, I look in there and see red paint...
We used to use Glyptal to paint the inside of bearing housings when I was in the pump overhaul business. It would be ideal although difficult to apply in this case. I see that Eastwood sells it now.
Matthew Devereux
'00 Boxster S
'58 356A coupe

User avatar
Thomas Sottile
356 Fan
Posts: 1008
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Stamford CT
Contact:

Re: DO NOT POWDER COAT!!!

#15 Post by Thomas Sottile » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:58 am

I have seen oil filters sand blasted and then chem blasted and then zinc coated shiny inside and out. I think Gaswerks dose it that way

Post Reply