The Official 356Talk Forum

Until now I wasn't aware of this change to the PCNA Certificate of Authenticity program -- here's a notice posted in the early 911 Register today:
Comment first by a guy in Austin, TX who said: Effective immediately, PCNA will no longer be including engine and transmission numbers on COA's for cars manufactured prior to 1979 UNLESS you can verify those numbers when you order your COA. In other words, if you don't already know your engine and transmission numbers, Porsche is not going to tell you. From their email to me:

Please be aware that for security reasons, Porsche Cars North America now requires you to provide the original engine/transmission number for classic vehicles (1979 & older) in order to list the engine/transmission number on the Certificate of Authenticity. If you are not able to provide the original engine/transmission number, the Certificate of Authenticity will list 'Not Confirmed' for the engine/transmission numbers.

Having been personally involved with setting up the CoA program, I know PAG even in the beginning had "a Problem" with providing what they perceived as personal and protected information about cars sold to customers. Too bad it's now come to this. Read further discussion over at Early 911S Registry.

I just got mine last week for my 53.
No tranny number. I was happy to see the original color was black since it is white with red underneath.
Black it will be.

Brad Ripley wrote: In other words, if you don't already know your engine and transmission numbers, Porsche is not going to tell you.

Wow.

So now the somewhat useful but oftentimes inaccurate document become borderline useless.

The 1950 to late 1952 cars used the VW full-crashbox trans. Porsche never listed that number because it was a VW part.
Martin; if your car is truly a 1953, then it would have had the 519 trans.

Wow, didn't know I could be any more right.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44026&hilit=kardex

Doesn't that border on loaning them your watch so they can tell you what time it is?

Wes Bender wrote:Doesn't that border on loaning them your watch so they can tell you what time it is?

It's kind of like, I show you mine, if you show me yours...

NOTE: If you just want to know if your engine is original, Elevenparts in Switzerland is still willing to help.
You need to send them a picture of the ID plate next to your gas tank, which shows the chassis number, thus verifying that you have the car (or have your own photo of the car's ID plate).
Go to https://www.elevenparts.com/type.php
Enter the chassis number, your email address, and submit the photo of the ID plate.
They will look up the engine number and email it to you.

When does the price go up now that there is less content on the document?

Porsche is the only company on earth that can give you less (think lightweight special edition vehicles without a top, radio, AC or sound deadening), charge you more and have you be thankful to them for it.

They figured this one out with the RS America in the early 90's. That car sold for less than a comparable Carrera and was wildly popular. Ever since then when they build cars like that the price is higher than its normal counterpart.

Porsche would do well to try to make the COA a valuable document. They could easily do this by striving to make them as accurate and complete as possible. They almost act as though they wish they didn't have to be involved with the COAs. I guess I don't have a problem with them requiring some form of proof that you own the car. Even Elevenparts requires you to e-mail him a photo of the chassis ID plate before he will verify an engine number for you.

There are ways that Porsche could generate meaningful and accurate COAs without violating German law. They just have to be motivated to do so.

Wes Bender wrote: Even Elevenparts requires you to e-mail him a photo of the chassis ID plate before he will verify an engine number for you.

In 2002, when I emailed Marco Marinello at Elevenparts requesting the correct engine numbers for my 2 C coupes, he only required me to supply the chassis numbers (no pics), and he looked them up for free.

Then I guess he got bombarded with requests and started charging a fee to look up the numbers.

Now he seems to want more proof that you have at least seen the ID plate, but there does not appear to be a fee.

Dave Wildrick wrote:

Wes Bender wrote: Even Elevenparts requires you to e-mail him a photo of the chassis ID plate before he will verify an engine number for you.

In 2002, when I emailed Marco Marinello at Elevenparts requesting the correct engine numbers for my 2 C coupes, he only required me to supply the chassis numbers (no pics), and he looked them up for free.

Then I guess he got bombarded with requests and started charging a fee to look up the numbers.

Now he seems to want more proof that you have at least seen the ID plate, but there does not appear to be a fee.

Yeah, but the problem with an email from Marco compared to a Porsche document is one is irrefutable, the Porsche document, while the Marco one is questioned. I know Marco, I've seen his list and I trust him, but when you go to sell your car and want to prove it's matching numbers and say you have an email from some dude in Switzerland who says it is, it's different than a document from Porsche. I don't understand why Porsche treats the COA program the way they do. I asked in my thread, but did not receive an answer.

Wow!!! So it's now just an expensive piece of worthless paper??

I think Adam's example is proof that it's just a money grab - something *that* important should be included, additionally with engines and trannies being swapped out, many aren't going to have those details.

Maybe I'm missing something, but how does providing these numbers infringe on "privacy"? I'll contact my local Porsche Centre here in AU to see if they will be following suit, if so, I'm happy I was able to get mine last year.

Sebastian Gaeta wrote:When does the price go up now that there is less content on the document?

Porsche is the only company on earth that can give you less (think lightweight special edition vehicles without a top, radio, AC or sound deadening), charge you more and have you be thankful to them for it.

They figured this one out with the RS America in the early 90's. That car sold for less than a comparable Carrera and was wildly popular. Ever since then when they build cars like that the price is higher than its normal counterpart.

My first Porsche was an RS America. Yes, they omitted stuff to lighten it, and the price was cheaper than a Carrera. Not only that, but they were having horrible sales at the time, and offered a special lease deal trying to move them that made the car quite cheap in relative terms. Was coming out of my mid-life divorce and money was tight but I got to make my own decisions for a change and treated myself. That was a car I should have hung on to.

On COA's, my 356 came with an older one but it listed the wrong model year ('61 instead of '60). I ordered a new one, which corrected the year, but had the wrong engine and/or tranny numbers. Then got that fixed for free. Seems like they don't take the COA program very seriously.

I can't understand how providing engine and tranny numbers original to the chassis could violate any privacy laws (but I'm not German).

This news is very disappointing. On one hand, Porsche is pushing its "classic" division and,then, has this policy that contradicts. It seems in business these days decisions are made with haphazard corporate policies with less regard to the consumer. George