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Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:25 pm
by Mike Murray
When you set the crank endplay..

1. Do you have to torque the gland nut to the 300 plus ft lb?

2. When setting the end play, do you have to use a crank gasket each time you set the endpay.... I am assuming that you do not have to use the gasket when setting the endplay.. only for the final installation.

3 Like VW do you have to use three shims? Or can you use any amount?

Thanks in advance
Mike

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:02 pm
by Ron LaDow
Mike Murray wrote:When you set the crank endplay..
1. Do you have to torque the gland nut to the 300 plus ft lb?
No. That torque is intended to stretch the bolt some slight amount to keep it from unwinding, but you'll still want it tight, say 100#/ft.
Mike Murray wrote:2. When setting the end play, do you have to use a crank gasket each time you set the endpay.... I am assuming that you do not have to use the gasket when setting the endplay.. only for the final installation.
Assuming this is the cast-iron gasket between the crank end and the socket on the flywheel, use the old one to set the dim, fit the new one on final assembly.
Mike Murray wrote:3 Like VW do you have to use three shims? Or can you use any amount?
The factory says ONE of the right size. Some have been 'sinning' as the good ones are getting scarce in certain sizes.

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:06 pm
by Mike Murray
Ron
Thanks so much. All makes sense but one thought...

But one question, wont the new metal gasket compress a little?

Mike

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:40 pm
by Ron LaDow
Mike,
The manual is down the hall, but as I recall the spec is ~.005".
That 'gasket' probably mics somehwere close to .002". It is 'crushed' by a pretty course thread and has enough surface area (and internal density) to avoid any real change in thickness. So I'd bet you can't measure the crush.
But your question also has to do with which side of the tolerance does a builder or tuner aim at?
The crank is gonna get looser; aim for the tight side.
The plugs are gonna open up; start at the minimum.
The valves are gonna get looser, set to the tight side.
The points are gonna wear toward tight; aim for loose when you set 'em.
And so forth.

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:24 am
by GregVandenbussche
you might want to get a new gland nut too, for safety... and don't forget to cut the extra lip on the flywheel seal...

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:08 pm
by Jacques Lefriant
other considerations if you have an abnormal reading make sure the socket in the flywheel is correct depth. it maybe best to investigate the fits initially with the crank out of the case to ensure that the bearing does not bottom on the radius also the bearing has to fit the case properly. calculate the predicated end play by measuring the components. also it works out better if you measure the end play of the assembly before installing the cylinders. a big mistake is to restore the endplay to spec on a worn out motor since the #1 bearing may be moving in the case.
j

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:55 pm
by Mike Murray
Sorry for being so uninformed, but this is my first 356 rebuild, have done many British....but...what does "to cut the extra lip on the flywheel seal " mean?

Mike

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:25 pm
by Dave Wildrick
Mike Murray wrote:Sorry for being so uninformed, but this is my first 356 rebuild, have done many British....but...what does "to cut the extra lip on the flywheel seal " mean?

Mike
Read this discussion, especially p. 2 of it: http://porsche356registry.org/356talk/1/10788.html
Here's a pic of the trimming they are talking about:
FlywhlSealTrim.jpg
If you don't cut this lip off, it will rub and burn, causing seal failure.

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:03 pm
by Bill Owen
The manual says to use only one shim. What if it never gets in the range?

Can two shims be used?

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:09 pm
by Eric Wills
One shim is best. What size do you need?

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:53 am
by Wil Mittelbach
Bill Owen wrote:The manual says to use only one shim. What if it never gets in the range?
Can two shims be used?
Bill-
If I recall when setting the crankshaft endplay in my C engine some time ago, I used two shims of different thickness to achieve the proper end play. (Different thickness shims are available.)
- Wil

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:16 am
by Brad Ripley
Shim thicknesses are currently available from 0,80 thru 1,05. Prices vary from $22 to $27 each.
BTW it didn't bother the late Harry Pellow to use a 36 hp shim to make up the proper end play -- but it did take him five pages to talk about it!

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:00 pm
by Darryl Deppe
So I'm installing a new flywheel, does one remove the (or all) shim(s) before the initial measurement and then subtract 0.005" to arrive at the shim thickness in inches? It's a new engine build (with a new SCAT crank) but I discovered a PO had used an earlier 180 mm clutch flywheel on my 356C and I want to make it right.

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:17 pm
by Al Zim
For the first 15 years or so that I did engines I used 3 (36 HP) VW shims as the VW shop manual stated. We always had a stack of those in the shop and could arrange the stack easily to get a perfect clearance. As far as I can tell we never had any serious situations. The 356 Crank and flywheel evolved from the 36 HP VW. I have also used the 180 MM flywheel on many pre 1964 engine swaps. I never had a problem with this switch. On the A cars you could use a VW transporter pressure plate and a sedan disc without springs and the VW bus throw out bearing which worked perfectly. I would suggest you use a depth micrometer and a dial indicator to check and set your end play. ONLY USE THE LATEST GLAND NUT THAT HAS THE BRASS INSERT AND THE THICK WASHER. IF YOU THINK YOUR GLAND NUT IS STRETCHING REPLACE IT. If the flywheel comes loose you are looking at a major engine rebuild and possibly fun with the transmission input shaft. COMING SOON: DEC. 2019 ZIM'S WILL BE OFFERING A 356/912 TORQUING DEVICE THAT FITS THE FLYWHEEL AND WILL FIT THE AXLE NUTS ON THE DRUM AND DISC BRAKE CARS. If your socket on your torquing device does not fit the flywheel gland nut we will modify it for $30.00 plus return shipping. If you would like the adapter so you can use the torquing device on Disc and Drum brakes it is $75.00 plus tax (where applicable ) and shipping. al zim 800.356.2964

Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:10 pm
by Spike Jones
Here are a couple of pics of what Al is referring to in his post about the depth micrometer and dial indicator use in setting the end play. Pics are of my '58 "A" engine during the process of Mike Horton helping me perform a "crankshaftectomy" and general refresh.
20180427_143909.jpg
20180427_143909.jpg (2.82 MiB) Viewed 2044 times
20180508_163208.jpg
20180508_163208.jpg (2.55 MiB) Viewed 2044 times