Setting crankshaft endplay

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Mike Murray
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Setting crankshaft endplay

#1 Post by Mike Murray »

When you set the crank endplay..

1. Do you have to torque the gland nut to the 300 plus ft lb?

2. When setting the end play, do you have to use a crank gasket each time you set the endpay.... I am assuming that you do not have to use the gasket when setting the endplay.. only for the final installation.

3 Like VW do you have to use three shims? Or can you use any amount?

Thanks in advance
Mike

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Ron LaDow
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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#2 Post by Ron LaDow »

Mike Murray wrote:When you set the crank endplay..
1. Do you have to torque the gland nut to the 300 plus ft lb?
No. That torque is intended to stretch the bolt some slight amount to keep it from unwinding, but you'll still want it tight, say 100#/ft.
Mike Murray wrote:2. When setting the end play, do you have to use a crank gasket each time you set the endpay.... I am assuming that you do not have to use the gasket when setting the endplay.. only for the final installation.
Assuming this is the cast-iron gasket between the crank end and the socket on the flywheel, use the old one to set the dim, fit the new one on final assembly.
Mike Murray wrote:3 Like VW do you have to use three shims? Or can you use any amount?
The factory says ONE of the right size. Some have been 'sinning' as the good ones are getting scarce in certain sizes.
Ron LaDow
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Mike Murray
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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#3 Post by Mike Murray »

Ron
Thanks so much. All makes sense but one thought...

But one question, wont the new metal gasket compress a little?

Mike

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Ron LaDow
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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#4 Post by Ron LaDow »

Mike,
The manual is down the hall, but as I recall the spec is ~.005".
That 'gasket' probably mics somehwere close to .002". It is 'crushed' by a pretty course thread and has enough surface area (and internal density) to avoid any real change in thickness. So I'd bet you can't measure the crush.
But your question also has to do with which side of the tolerance does a builder or tuner aim at?
The crank is gonna get looser; aim for the tight side.
The plugs are gonna open up; start at the minimum.
The valves are gonna get looser, set to the tight side.
The points are gonna wear toward tight; aim for loose when you set 'em.
And so forth.
Ron LaDow
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GregVandenbussche
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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#5 Post by GregVandenbussche »

you might want to get a new gland nut too, for safety... and don't forget to cut the extra lip on the flywheel seal...
Bt5 Super - used to be fjord green, was painted brass, then brown... sadness

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Jacques Lefriant
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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#6 Post by Jacques Lefriant »

other considerations if you have an abnormal reading make sure the socket in the flywheel is correct depth. it maybe best to investigate the fits initially with the crank out of the case to ensure that the bearing does not bottom on the radius also the bearing has to fit the case properly. calculate the predicated end play by measuring the components. also it works out better if you measure the end play of the assembly before installing the cylinders. a big mistake is to restore the endplay to spec on a worn out motor since the #1 bearing may be moving in the case.
j
 

Mike Murray
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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#7 Post by Mike Murray »

Sorry for being so uninformed, but this is my first 356 rebuild, have done many British....but...what does "to cut the extra lip on the flywheel seal " mean?

Mike

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Dave Wildrick
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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#8 Post by Dave Wildrick »

Mike Murray wrote:Sorry for being so uninformed, but this is my first 356 rebuild, have done many British....but...what does "to cut the extra lip on the flywheel seal " mean?

Mike
Read this discussion, especially p. 2 of it: http://porsche356registry.org/356talk/1/10788.html
Here's a pic of the trimming they are talking about:
FlywhlSealTrim.jpg
If you don't cut this lip off, it will rub and burn, causing seal failure.
Dave Wildrick
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65C coupe

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Bill Owen
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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#9 Post by Bill Owen »

The manual says to use only one shim. What if it never gets in the range?

Can two shims be used?

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Eric Wills
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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#10 Post by Eric Wills »

One shim is best. What size do you need?
Eric Wills

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Wil Mittelbach
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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#11 Post by Wil Mittelbach »

Bill Owen wrote:The manual says to use only one shim. What if it never gets in the range?
Can two shims be used?
Bill-
If I recall when setting the crankshaft endplay in my C engine some time ago, I used two shims of different thickness to achieve the proper end play. (Different thickness shims are available.)
- Wil

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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#12 Post by Brad Ripley »

Shim thicknesses are currently available from 0,80 thru 1,05. Prices vary from $22 to $27 each.
BTW it didn't bother the late Harry Pellow to use a 36 hp shim to make up the proper end play -- but it did take him five pages to talk about it!

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Darryl Deppe
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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#13 Post by Darryl Deppe »

So I'm installing a new flywheel, does one remove the (or all) shim(s) before the initial measurement and then subtract 0.005" to arrive at the shim thickness in inches? It's a new engine build (with a new SCAT crank) but I discovered a PO had used an earlier 180 mm clutch flywheel on my 356C and I want to make it right.

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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#14 Post by Al Zim »

For the first 15 years or so that I did engines I used 3 (36 HP) VW shims as the VW shop manual stated. We always had a stack of those in the shop and could arrange the stack easily to get a perfect clearance. As far as I can tell we never had any serious situations. The 356 Crank and flywheel evolved from the 36 HP VW. I have also used the 180 MM flywheel on many pre 1964 engine swaps. I never had a problem with this switch. On the A cars you could use a VW transporter pressure plate and a sedan disc without springs and the VW bus throw out bearing which worked perfectly. I would suggest you use a depth micrometer and a dial indicator to check and set your end play. ONLY USE THE LATEST GLAND NUT THAT HAS THE BRASS INSERT AND THE THICK WASHER. IF YOU THINK YOUR GLAND NUT IS STRETCHING REPLACE IT. If the flywheel comes loose you are looking at a major engine rebuild and possibly fun with the transmission input shaft. COMING SOON: DEC. 2019 ZIM'S WILL BE OFFERING A 356/912 TORQUING DEVICE THAT FITS THE FLYWHEEL AND WILL FIT THE AXLE NUTS ON THE DRUM AND DISC BRAKE CARS. If your socket on your torquing device does not fit the flywheel gland nut we will modify it for $30.00 plus return shipping. If you would like the adapter so you can use the torquing device on Disc and Drum brakes it is $75.00 plus tax (where applicable ) and shipping. al zim 800.356.2964
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Spike Jones
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Re: Setting crankshaft endplay

#15 Post by Spike Jones »

Here are a couple of pics of what Al is referring to in his post about the depth micrometer and dial indicator use in setting the end play. Pics are of my '58 "A" engine during the process of Mike Horton helping me perform a "crankshaftectomy" and general refresh.
20180427_143909.jpg
20180427_143909.jpg (2.82 MiB) Viewed 2038 times
20180508_163208.jpg
20180508_163208.jpg (2.55 MiB) Viewed 2038 times
Spike Jones
'58 Cab

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