Transmission upgrade predicament for a late '59 A
- Jay Aldeguer
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 am
Transmission upgrade predicament for a late '59 A
Hello Gentlemen,
I am about to do a transmission upgrade on my late '59A.
Here are the givens:
1) My T2 has VIN 107xxx
2) I bought a used early 741 transmission built 12 '59 with 716 case
3) I replaced its single mount nose to a dual mount type.
4) I have a stock T2 shifter on the car
I brought up this discussion several years ago and decided to put this project on hold after finishing a few other restorations. After 7 years, I would like to complete this car soon. Several people have chimed in before with great suggestions. Jon Bonin, Vic Skirmants and Alan were quite helpful. I hope I can count on the board to give further advice as I know I need to make a few modifications.
Regards,
Jay
I am about to do a transmission upgrade on my late '59A.
Here are the givens:
1) My T2 has VIN 107xxx
2) I bought a used early 741 transmission built 12 '59 with 716 case
3) I replaced its single mount nose to a dual mount type.
4) I have a stock T2 shifter on the car
I brought up this discussion several years ago and decided to put this project on hold after finishing a few other restorations. After 7 years, I would like to complete this car soon. Several people have chimed in before with great suggestions. Jon Bonin, Vic Skirmants and Alan were quite helpful. I hope I can count on the board to give further advice as I know I need to make a few modifications.
Regards,
Jay
Check out some of my 356 and early Porsche photos @aircooledph on Instagram
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1800
- Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:06 pm
- Location: Vista, CA
Re: Transmission upgrade predicament for a late '59 A
Jay,
You cannot use a stock T2 shifter and linkage with the 741 transmission in your pictures.
If the car is already modified to use this transmission, you'll need to update the shifter, tunnel rod & coupler with the later B/C parts, or maybe someone knows of a way to modify the earlier shifter and linkage to work.
If you want to use the stock T2 shifter and linkage, the 741 transmission can be converted to use in a 356A, using a 644 front cover, shift selector and shift rods.
You cannot use a stock T2 shifter and linkage with the 741 transmission in your pictures.
If the car is already modified to use this transmission, you'll need to update the shifter, tunnel rod & coupler with the later B/C parts, or maybe someone knows of a way to modify the earlier shifter and linkage to work.
If you want to use the stock T2 shifter and linkage, the 741 transmission can be converted to use in a 356A, using a 644 front cover, shift selector and shift rods.
Jon Bunin
- Jay Aldeguer
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 am
Re: Transmission upgrade predicament for a late '59 A
Hello Jon,
Im glad you came across this post since I remember you were quite helpful the last time. My mechanic says he plans to go with your first option of modifying the stock shifter, tunnel rod and coupler using later parts. Do you think this would be my best bet? Would this set up greatly improve shifting?
Thanks.
Jay
Im glad you came across this post since I remember you were quite helpful the last time. My mechanic says he plans to go with your first option of modifying the stock shifter, tunnel rod and coupler using later parts. Do you think this would be my best bet? Would this set up greatly improve shifting?
Thanks.
Jay
Check out some of my 356 and early Porsche photos @aircooledph on Instagram
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1800
- Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:06 pm
- Location: Vista, CA
Re: Transmission upgrade predicament for a late '59 A
Jay,
Yes, your shifting will be improved compared to a stock 356A, and you'll have the option to use later, better clutches on your engine.
You'll need to make a base plate to bolt the later shifter onto the A tunnel, change the heater cable, and re-wire the reverse light for the later transmission-mounted switch.
I'm not really involved in such conversions, so someone else may have more information for you.
I don't think the 741 front cover you have will bolt up properly to an earlier car- has the car already been modified for that?
Yes, your shifting will be improved compared to a stock 356A, and you'll have the option to use later, better clutches on your engine.
You'll need to make a base plate to bolt the later shifter onto the A tunnel, change the heater cable, and re-wire the reverse light for the later transmission-mounted switch.
I'm not really involved in such conversions, so someone else may have more information for you.
I don't think the 741 front cover you have will bolt up properly to an earlier car- has the car already been modified for that?
Jon Bunin
- Jacques Lefriant
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 4602
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:50 pm
- Location: Washoe county NV
Re: Transmission upgrade predicament for a late '59 A
Hi Jay
1. Do you have the original transmission and is it a 716?
2. if you had a 716 the 741 would not be any significant improvement internally and the 716 can easily accommodate the later clutch.
3. besides changing the nose cone did you change the hockey stick and the operating rods so you could use the later versions of the B/C shifters?
4. personally i would upgrade your 716 with a better differential(Cadrobbi Style) and use the best parts from the 2 gear boxes and have a profesional rebuild done.
j
1. Do you have the original transmission and is it a 716?
2. if you had a 716 the 741 would not be any significant improvement internally and the 716 can easily accommodate the later clutch.
3. besides changing the nose cone did you change the hockey stick and the operating rods so you could use the later versions of the B/C shifters?
4. personally i would upgrade your 716 with a better differential(Cadrobbi Style) and use the best parts from the 2 gear boxes and have a profesional rebuild done.
j
- Jay Aldeguer
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 am
Re: Transmission upgrade predicament for a late '59 A
Hello Jon,
I havent modified the underchassis yet to accomodate the 741 front cover but shouldnt have any issues doing so. Any thing I should watch out for before I proceed?
Jay
I havent modified the underchassis yet to accomodate the 741 front cover but shouldnt have any issues doing so. Any thing I should watch out for before I proceed?
Jay
Jon Bunin wrote:Jay,
Yes, your shifting will be improved compared to a stock 356A, and you'll have the option to use later, better clutches on your engine.
You'll need to make a base plate to bolt the later shifter onto the A tunnel, change the heater cable, and re-wire the reverse light for the later transmission-mounted switch.
I'm not really involved in such conversions, so someone else may have more information for you.
I don't think the 741 front cover you have will bolt up properly to an earlier car- has the car already been modified for that?
Check out some of my 356 and early Porsche photos @aircooledph on Instagram
- Jay Aldeguer
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 am
Re: Transmission upgrade predicament for a late '59 A
Hello Jacques,
1. No I don't the car came with a VW transmission and engine. Had to buy a new transaxle; ended up with an early 741 built in Dec '59.
3. I plan to keep the A shifter and modify it a bit so I can use the B/C operating rods and linkage. Is this a wise move?
4. I'm based overseas and dont have access to many 356 parts but if theres a better solution to this set up, I dont mind buying additional parts.
Thanks for your inputs and I hope you can continue to guide me on my next moves.
Jay
1. No I don't the car came with a VW transmission and engine. Had to buy a new transaxle; ended up with an early 741 built in Dec '59.
3. I plan to keep the A shifter and modify it a bit so I can use the B/C operating rods and linkage. Is this a wise move?
4. I'm based overseas and dont have access to many 356 parts but if theres a better solution to this set up, I dont mind buying additional parts.
Thanks for your inputs and I hope you can continue to guide me on my next moves.
Jay
Jacques Lefriant wrote:Hi Jay
1. Do you have the original transmission and is it a 716?
2. if you had a 716 the 741 would not be any significant improvement internally and the 716 can easily accommodate the later clutch.
3. besides changing the nose cone did you change the hockey stick and the operating rods so you could use the later versions of the B/C shifters?
4. personally i would upgrade your 716 with a better differential(Cadrobbi Style) and use the best parts from the 2 gear boxes and have a profesional rebuild done.
j
Check out some of my 356 and early Porsche photos @aircooledph on Instagram
- Jim Karaba
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1027
- Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:34 am
- Location: Lafayette, LA
Re: Transmission upgrade predicament for a late '59 A
It can be done. I used a VW bus shifter I modified to be the same length and bent to the correct shape. I then used a VW bushing support with the porsche reverse lockout plate. I used the front half of a VW shift rod mated to the rear half of a late Porsche rod with a custom bolt together coupler I made. This coupler also helps with removing the rod from the tunnel. I wish I had taken more pictures for you of the actual shift lever, but it can and does work with the 741 trans.
- Larry Coreth
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1930
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:48 pm
- Location: NE N.CAROLINA
Re: Transmission upgrade predicament for a late '59 A
Jay,
From the picture you posted (below), the sheet metal has been modified already, to fit the VW trans.
If you plan to keep the 356A linkage, shifter and shifter rod, etc., then I would recommend using a 644 nose piece with 644 shifter rails. Also if you do this I suggest you get a closing panel ( which was cut out of your car) to keep the elements out of the center tunnel.
If you are unsure how all this is supposed to look, review the trans section of your A shop manual ! To further improve your understanding I suggest you review the trans section of the B/C manual, You do have copies on hand or at least your mechanic should have !
From the picture you posted (below), the sheet metal has been modified already, to fit the VW trans.
If you plan to keep the 356A linkage, shifter and shifter rod, etc., then I would recommend using a 644 nose piece with 644 shifter rails. Also if you do this I suggest you get a closing panel ( which was cut out of your car) to keep the elements out of the center tunnel.
If you are unsure how all this is supposed to look, review the trans section of your A shop manual ! To further improve your understanding I suggest you review the trans section of the B/C manual, You do have copies on hand or at least your mechanic should have !
Larry Coreth
Roanoake Rapids, NC
Roanoake Rapids, NC
- Jay Aldeguer
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 am
Re: Transmission upgrade predicament for a late '59 A
Hello Jim,
I havent explore this option yet but definitely makes sense! Thanks for the photos and the suggestion!
Jay
I havent explore this option yet but definitely makes sense! Thanks for the photos and the suggestion!
Jay
Jim Karaba wrote:It can be done. I used a VW bus shifter I modified to be the same length and bent to the correct shape. I then used a VW bushing support with the porsche reverse lockout plate. I used the front half of a VW shift rod mated to the rear half of a late Porsche rod with a custom bolt together coupler I made. This coupler also helps with removing the rod from the tunnel. I wish I had taken more pictures for you of the actual shift lever, but it can and does work with the 741 trans.
Check out some of my 356 and early Porsche photos @aircooledph on Instagram
- Jay Aldeguer
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 am
Re: Transmission upgrade predicament for a late '59 A
Hello Larry,
Yes I agree the metal does not look factory and has been modified. Using a 644 nose and rails might be my best option. I do have complete manuals of the A-C so will study it some more. Thanks for your input.
Jay
Yes I agree the metal does not look factory and has been modified. Using a 644 nose and rails might be my best option. I do have complete manuals of the A-C so will study it some more. Thanks for your input.
Jay
Larry Coreth wrote:Jay,
From the picture you posted (below), the sheet metal has been modified already, to fit the VW trans.
If you plan to keep the 356A linkage, shifter and shifter rod, etc., then I would recommend using a 644 nose piece with 644 shifter rails. Also if you do this I suggest you get a closing panel ( which was cut out of your car) to keep the elements out of the center tunnel.
If you are unsure how all this is supposed to look, review the trans section of your A shop manual ! To further improve your understanding I suggest you review the trans section of the B/C manual, You do have copies on hand or at least your mechanic should have !
Check out some of my 356 and early Porsche photos @aircooledph on Instagram