#4 cylinder not combusting
- Adam Willis
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 10:59 pm
- Location: Charleston, SC
Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Peter, et al,
Sorry for the lateness on the reply...been out of pocket for the last couple of days...I agree, the carbs are not in the best shape. I looked up the numbering and lettering for the carbs and they appear to be the original carbs for that year, left and right set. The last time they were rebuilt or touched for that matter was in 1995...by me. Unfortunately, I don't remember anything from that long ago...so, I am going thru everything I once did oh so many years ago and as one would suspect, I am finding many thing I did not do right the first time around (or missed because I was in a hurry)...well, it keeps me busy. Still waiting on a new distributor...I have some 1K grit paper...I have a piece of granite that should work for a flat surface. As for the throttle bodies, they may be too hard for sandpaper...I was thinking file drawing them to flatten and then dragging them across the sandpaper?
If I can't get the left carb to come back to life (assuming that is my issue), do you or Dick have the same year bodies and throttle plate assembly for a 1958 year? Trying to maintain original, however, that is becoming more problematic as I find more and more issues...
Sorry for the lateness on the reply...been out of pocket for the last couple of days...I agree, the carbs are not in the best shape. I looked up the numbering and lettering for the carbs and they appear to be the original carbs for that year, left and right set. The last time they were rebuilt or touched for that matter was in 1995...by me. Unfortunately, I don't remember anything from that long ago...so, I am going thru everything I once did oh so many years ago and as one would suspect, I am finding many thing I did not do right the first time around (or missed because I was in a hurry)...well, it keeps me busy. Still waiting on a new distributor...I have some 1K grit paper...I have a piece of granite that should work for a flat surface. As for the throttle bodies, they may be too hard for sandpaper...I was thinking file drawing them to flatten and then dragging them across the sandpaper?
If I can't get the left carb to come back to life (assuming that is my issue), do you or Dick have the same year bodies and throttle plate assembly for a 1958 year? Trying to maintain original, however, that is becoming more problematic as I find more and more issues...
- Peter Boettcher
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:37 pm
- Location: Cincinnati, OH
Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Adam,
I will look at the bodies I have and advise and will ask Dick to do the same.
The steel throttle bodies I believe dont warp too much, so they probably are easily checked.
Please confirm what dates you have on the existing carbs and we can see how close we can come.
I am traveling and will be back on Sunday.
Peter
I will look at the bodies I have and advise and will ask Dick to do the same.
The steel throttle bodies I believe dont warp too much, so they probably are easily checked.
Please confirm what dates you have on the existing carbs and we can see how close we can come.
I am traveling and will be back on Sunday.
Peter
Peter Boettcher
- Adam Willis
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 10:59 pm
- Location: Charleston, SC
Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Peter,
Thanks...appreciate the look see...Both Carbs are dated 12/57 PO3L and PO3R...all the jet sizing is in line with 1600 Normal engine specs.
Adam
Thanks...appreciate the look see...Both Carbs are dated 12/57 PO3L and PO3R...all the jet sizing is in line with 1600 Normal engine specs.
Adam
- Bruce Smith
- 356 Fan
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Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Adam -
I've got a few pair of 12/57 PO3L & PO3R carbs set up to normal spec. Some earlier and later dates as well. Let me know if I can help.
- Bruce
I've got a few pair of 12/57 PO3L & PO3R carbs set up to normal spec. Some earlier and later dates as well. Let me know if I can help.
- Bruce
Bruce Smith
- Peter Boettcher
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Cincinnati, OH
Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Hi Adam,
Having met Bruce at swap events and seeing his workmanship first hand, I think he has the best solution possible to get your car on the road.
You will have great carbs that are a known entity and will perform well. He has also done distributors for me and many others.
And he is a great guy to boot!
Peter
Having met Bruce at swap events and seeing his workmanship first hand, I think he has the best solution possible to get your car on the road.
You will have great carbs that are a known entity and will perform well. He has also done distributors for me and many others.
And he is a great guy to boot!
Peter
Peter Boettcher
- Peter Boettcher
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Cincinnati, OH
Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Hi Adam,
Made it back and checked on the bodies I have and I do not have any early ones. Mine start in 59.
I have always tried to collect the later ones which have the additional reinforcement for the side cover.
I will double check with Dick Weiss to see what he has found.
Hope to see you in Oxford in August for the Red Brick Reunion. We caravan over from Cinci.
Peter
Made it back and checked on the bodies I have and I do not have any early ones. Mine start in 59.
I have always tried to collect the later ones which have the additional reinforcement for the side cover.
I will double check with Dick Weiss to see what he has found.
Hope to see you in Oxford in August for the Red Brick Reunion. We caravan over from Cinci.
Peter
Peter Boettcher
-
- 356 Fan
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Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Hi Adam,
There's really no need to change carb bodies, Just that they're complete for rebuilding--I just did a set for a member in
Muncie, IN and they'er ready for the bench test before installing and tuning the engine on the test stand this weekend.
If you need further discussion, let me know (513) 703 5114.
Dick
There's really no need to change carb bodies, Just that they're complete for rebuilding--I just did a set for a member in
Muncie, IN and they'er ready for the bench test before installing and tuning the engine on the test stand this weekend.
If you need further discussion, let me know (513) 703 5114.
Dick
- Peter Boettcher
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Cincinnati, OH
Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Thanks Dick
Adam, I would give Dick a call and set up an inspection of your carbs.
He is right here in Cincinnati also
Peter
Adam, I would give Dick a call and set up an inspection of your carbs.
He is right here in Cincinnati also
Peter
Peter Boettcher
- Adam Willis
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 10:59 pm
- Location: Charleston, SC
Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Peter, Dick, Bruce
Thanks for the replies...just go back in town from a week of work in Denver. I am going thru everyting one more time to see if I can make sense of the issue I am having...need some help interpreting some things...I pulled the distributor and checked the drive index. Currently, at TDC on #1, the distributor drive is place so the "short end" is toward the front of engine (back of the vehicle) and is offset approximately 35-45* from parallel of the third piece mating surface. Looking thru the forum, I have seen statements that the drive gear is suppose to have the short end toward the rear of the engine, and conversely, I have seen it so say pulley side. Reading Henry Elfrinks manual, it say specifically to position the drive so that the short end is toward the pulley side. Additionally, reading the Porsche owners manual, it also says to position the drive with the short end toward the pulley and shows a photo of the drive in that position. Am I interpreting it incorrectly? Do you set the drive with the short end toward the pulley or the back of the engine? Upon full engagement, is the slot supposed to be at a 45* angle to parallel or is it suppose to be just off parallel?
Thanks guy's!
Thanks for the replies...just go back in town from a week of work in Denver. I am going thru everyting one more time to see if I can make sense of the issue I am having...need some help interpreting some things...I pulled the distributor and checked the drive index. Currently, at TDC on #1, the distributor drive is place so the "short end" is toward the front of engine (back of the vehicle) and is offset approximately 35-45* from parallel of the third piece mating surface. Looking thru the forum, I have seen statements that the drive gear is suppose to have the short end toward the rear of the engine, and conversely, I have seen it so say pulley side. Reading Henry Elfrinks manual, it say specifically to position the drive so that the short end is toward the pulley side. Additionally, reading the Porsche owners manual, it also says to position the drive with the short end toward the pulley and shows a photo of the drive in that position. Am I interpreting it incorrectly? Do you set the drive with the short end toward the pulley or the back of the engine? Upon full engagement, is the slot supposed to be at a 45* angle to parallel or is it suppose to be just off parallel?
Thanks guy's!
- David Jones
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Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Adam, the position of the drive gear is not relevant to your issue. As long as #1 cyl on the distributor cap is going to #1 cyl and the timing is at 5 degrees before top dead center then as long as the other cylinders are connected in the right sequence you will have ignition occurring in the correct sequence. The only reason to have the drive gear in the prescribed position is so that the distributor is aligned as per the manual. This is in large part because if it were other then the condenser bolted to the outside of the distributor will foul the oil line or the oil pressure switch in a different position.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
- Wes Bender
- 356 Fan
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Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
To preclude confusion, you might want to use the conventional references for front and rear of the engine. The pulley end is the rear of the engine. The flywheel end is the front.
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.....
- Peter Boettcher
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Cincinnati, OH
Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Adam,
Sounds like you have been given good advice on the distributor drive gear and its orientation.
Page 50 of Elfrink is pretty clear and has an illustration.
Be sure not to turn the engine over with the distributor removed as it will drive the distributor gear up and out.
At this point I would have the car towed to The Garaj and let Yuri look things over, or pay Dick Weiss to come to your location to assess the car and carbs.
His experienced eyes may have something obvious jump out at him.
Sounds like you have been given good advice on the distributor drive gear and its orientation.
Page 50 of Elfrink is pretty clear and has an illustration.
Be sure not to turn the engine over with the distributor removed as it will drive the distributor gear up and out.
At this point I would have the car towed to The Garaj and let Yuri look things over, or pay Dick Weiss to come to your location to assess the car and carbs.
His experienced eyes may have something obvious jump out at him.
Peter Boettcher
- Adam Willis
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 10:59 pm
- Location: Charleston, SC
Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Wes,
Thanks...not what I was expecting. Can I assume you meant the "pulley end is the rear of the CAR"? and the flywheel end is the FRONT of the car" if not, I really need to take a look at this thing from a new perspective.
Thanks...not what I was expecting. Can I assume you meant the "pulley end is the rear of the CAR"? and the flywheel end is the FRONT of the car" if not, I really need to take a look at this thing from a new perspective.
- David Jones
- Classifieds Moderator
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Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
Adam, to clarify. Looking in to the engine compartment the front cylinder on the right side is #1 and #2 is right rear. Look closely and you will see the cyl #'s embossed in to the tin work.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
- Martin Benade
- 356 Fan
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Re: #4 cylinder not combusting
I am pretty sure the cylinder numbers are only on VWs.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna