Which seat belt ?
- Jim Nelson
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Which seat belt ?
Looking at Charlie White's excellent website ( http://derwhites356literature.com ) it's interesting to note that in October 1962 the factory offered three different kinds of seat belts. So in looking (with a few other folks who have started to gather in L.A. for the Lit Show ), we took a look at my Kardex, which says " 2 Paar Schragsschultergurte", which on the COA is translated to be "Seat Belts". We had thought that meant lap belts, but my car also has these bits:
so we thought maybe the "Seat Belts" were really the shoulder belts, that look like this:
(I have shamelessly copied this from Charlie's site, and pray for forgiveness....)
So the question is--how do you know which seat belt, of the three offered sets, your car came with ? Would your car have the little aluminum piece where the shoulder belt would be located if it didn't come with shoulder belts ? Has anyone even seen factory shoulder belts ? If so, what does the piece that affixes to the aluminum bracket look like ?
Anyone?
(I have shamelessly copied this from Charlie's site, and pray for forgiveness....)
So the question is--how do you know which seat belt, of the three offered sets, your car came with ? Would your car have the little aluminum piece where the shoulder belt would be located if it didn't come with shoulder belts ? Has anyone even seen factory shoulder belts ? If so, what does the piece that affixes to the aluminum bracket look like ?
Anyone?
- Tom Coughlin
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Re: Which seat belt ?
Jim: My '65 kardex lists 2 Schrägschultergurt and my COA calls them shoulder seat belts.
A different (call it a translation) document I have shows Sicherheitsgurte for safety belt. It looks as though you originally had the shoulder belt. Tom
A different (call it a translation) document I have shows Sicherheitsgurte for safety belt. It looks as though you originally had the shoulder belt. Tom
KTF, member #15
- Steve Hatfield
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Re: Which seat belt ?
My '62 S90 Coupe's Kardex also lists "2 Paar Sicherheitsgure" in the additional equipment section and the car came to me with these belts still installed! These are lap belts with no provisions for shoulder mounts. My COA specifies "2 Safety Belts". Hope this helps.
Steve Hatfield
Fort Walton Beach, FL
'63 S90 Sunroof Coupe
'06 997S Coupe
Fort Walton Beach, FL
'63 S90 Sunroof Coupe
'06 997S Coupe
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Re: Which seat belt ?
I have attached the mounting instructions provided by American Safety Equipment Corp. for the installation of shoulder belts in post 1964 Porsche cars. It seems that the plastic washer and bolt cap screw (see Fig 1) would have been provided at the factory prior to installation of safety belts at a later stage. These instructions came with a 1968 911 which I recently purchased and for which the Kardex does not list safety belts but the window sticker from the Porsche of America Corporation (importer) lists "sash/lap safety belts, left & right, as standard". My theory is that, at least for the US, Porsche let the importer install them in order to provide both what a local purchaser would have preferred, as well as potentially shift liability away from the factory.
Pascal
Pascal
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- ASEC Porsche Safety Belts.compressed.pdf
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- Jim Nelson
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Re: Which seat belt ?
Thanks, guys, that is extremely helpful. I recalled having belts on the car when I originally got it, and after 50 or so years I figured they could stand a replacement, and I got new ones. But...I also recalled that they seemed longish to me, and I thought it was just an aftermarket set. Looking around, I dug up the old belts, and sure enough, they are the shoulder belts, but when I got the car the long belt was affixed to the floor. They look like this:
Pretty beefy brackets, and it looks like it was the shoulder-only belt, as opposed to the shoulder and lap variety. The weird part is that for the shoulder belt only, the mounting instructions only list one floor bracket and one round anchor plate in the rear, but my car has the two floor brackets and the round anchor in the rear (each side), which should have been what was spec'd for the lap and shoulder belt.
Installation instructions for the three are in the B/C Workshop Manual, Section S TRA, p. 19-22, including the part numbers for all the anchor points. I'd wager that the only round ones available are already in cars or on a long-forgotten shelf.
Now to find a lap and shoulder set....that could be tough.
Pretty beefy brackets, and it looks like it was the shoulder-only belt, as opposed to the shoulder and lap variety. The weird part is that for the shoulder belt only, the mounting instructions only list one floor bracket and one round anchor plate in the rear, but my car has the two floor brackets and the round anchor in the rear (each side), which should have been what was spec'd for the lap and shoulder belt.
Installation instructions for the three are in the B/C Workshop Manual, Section S TRA, p. 19-22, including the part numbers for all the anchor points. I'd wager that the only round ones available are already in cars or on a long-forgotten shelf.
Now to find a lap and shoulder set....that could be tough.
- Steve Hatfield
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Re: Which seat belt ?
Jim,
Congrats!
Those are oem!
Congrats!
Those are oem!
Steve Hatfield
Fort Walton Beach, FL
'63 S90 Sunroof Coupe
'06 997S Coupe
Fort Walton Beach, FL
'63 S90 Sunroof Coupe
'06 997S Coupe
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- 356 Fan
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Re: Which seat belt ?
Hello Registry Veterans. I am a 356 Noob, having recently purchased a 64 356C. The car is beautiful and I am enjoying beginning to learn about it (too bad the car is in Boulder, CO and I am in London on work for many more months). My 356 came with a lap belt for the driver and, somewhat to my surprise, nothing for the passenger. This has made my lovely wife even less excited about my new purchase. Can anyone point me to a resource where I may purchase a lap belt for the passenger side of my new prize? Thanks very much.
Chip Coe
Chip Coe
- Steve Hatfield
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Re: Which seat belt ?
Chip
Welcome
But you don't give us much to go on. If you could manage a description including a photo if your desire is to match what you now have that would be helpful. Otherwise email me as I have some period vintage sets.
Again welcome aboard.
Steve
Welcome
But you don't give us much to go on. If you could manage a description including a photo if your desire is to match what you now have that would be helpful. Otherwise email me as I have some period vintage sets.
Again welcome aboard.
Steve
Steve Hatfield
Fort Walton Beach, FL
'63 S90 Sunroof Coupe
'06 997S Coupe
Fort Walton Beach, FL
'63 S90 Sunroof Coupe
'06 997S Coupe
- Doug McDonnell
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Re: Which seat belt ?
Unsure if this is same or only similar. http://www.stoddard.com/90180312320-sic.html But this is marketed as correct for C/SC http://www.stoddard.com/90180312321-set.html And Chip Welcome to the Registry. You can get a belt for your wife multiple places including here: http://www.stoddard.com/64480390105-nla.html Oddly shoulder harness mounts not on the website under 356 only under early 912 as far as I can tell.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.
- Doug McDonnell
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Re: Which seat belt ?
early 912/911 lap/shoulder belts Jim. Not sure of course but they look like they would work for you: http://www.stoddard.com/90180301103-sic80301103.html
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.
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Re: Which seat belt ?
There can be translation errors from the Kardex card in German to the Cert of Auth. in English, presumably done at PCNA, Atlanta.
Here is a clip from the parts catalog which translates:
Sicherheitsgurt = air line (we call a lap belt)
Schragschultergurt = diagonal plus lap type
Here is a clip from the parts catalog which translates:
Sicherheitsgurt = air line (we call a lap belt)
Schragschultergurt = diagonal plus lap type
- David Jones
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Re: Which seat belt ?
Chip, I would highly recommend you fit inertia reel lap and diagonal seat belts. All my 356's have belts made by Andover restraints. Here is a link to their website and specifically to the belts for a Porsches including the 356. If you need pictures of the installation in my 356C just ask.
http://www.andoauto.com/Porsche.htm
http://www.andoauto.com/Porsche.htm
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
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Re: Which seat belt ?
Thanks for all for the information. I hope to be back in Boulder where the car is located in late June and can snap a photo and check colors, etc. I really appreciate the warm welcome and the gentle introduction to this fun 356 world.
Chip
Chip
- Jim Alton
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Re: Which seat belt ?
The aluminum thing in the rear wall is just what came in my early 911. Those are available again: Part Number: 901.803.123.21 advertised as fitting 356C, 911 &, 912.
I have better documentation for the early 911 than for the 356C. There was a shoulder harness only option (no lap belt)--from the September 1965 Accessories list:
9200 644.803.901.01 Sicherheitsgurt fur 1 Sitz (Beckengurt), links Safety belt for one seat (air-line type), left DM 54 $13.50
9201 644.803.901.01 Sicherheitsgurt fur 1 Sitz (Beckengurt), rechts Safety belt for one seat (air-line type), right DM 54 $13.50
9202 644.803.901.05 Schragschultergurt, links Safety belt, diagonal, sash type, left DM 56 $14.00
9203 644.803.901.02 Schragschultergurt, rechts Safety belt, diagonal, sash type, right DM 56 $14.00
9204 644.803.901.03 Becken-Schrägschultergurt, links Safety belt, diagonal-plus-lap type, left DM 68 $17.00
9205 644.803.901.06 Becken-Schrägschultergurt, rechts Safety belt, diagonal-plus-lap type, right DM 68 $17.00
9208 901.721.901.00 Beckengurt, schwarz, US-Ausfuhrung (für links und rechts passend) US approved safety belt (air-line type) left or right DM 54 $13.50
The "US approved" belt was the only one with a 911 as opposed to a 356 part number.
The belts in my 911 when I got it back in '97 had ends very much like the one's in Jim Nelson's post.
I have better documentation for the early 911 than for the 356C. There was a shoulder harness only option (no lap belt)--from the September 1965 Accessories list:
9200 644.803.901.01 Sicherheitsgurt fur 1 Sitz (Beckengurt), links Safety belt for one seat (air-line type), left DM 54 $13.50
9201 644.803.901.01 Sicherheitsgurt fur 1 Sitz (Beckengurt), rechts Safety belt for one seat (air-line type), right DM 54 $13.50
9202 644.803.901.05 Schragschultergurt, links Safety belt, diagonal, sash type, left DM 56 $14.00
9203 644.803.901.02 Schragschultergurt, rechts Safety belt, diagonal, sash type, right DM 56 $14.00
9204 644.803.901.03 Becken-Schrägschultergurt, links Safety belt, diagonal-plus-lap type, left DM 68 $17.00
9205 644.803.901.06 Becken-Schrägschultergurt, rechts Safety belt, diagonal-plus-lap type, right DM 68 $17.00
9208 901.721.901.00 Beckengurt, schwarz, US-Ausfuhrung (für links und rechts passend) US approved safety belt (air-line type) left or right DM 54 $13.50
The "US approved" belt was the only one with a 911 as opposed to a 356 part number.
The belts in my 911 when I got it back in '97 had ends very much like the one's in Jim Nelson's post.
Jim Alton
Los Angeles County, CA
1958 Porsche 356A Cabriolet
1965 Porsche 911 Coupé
1966 Volkswagen Type 2
2003 Porsche 986 Boxster