356 B cold starting problem

[Bob Cannon]

I find that putting a priming bulb inline at the fuel line comes out of the body is a simple and effective solution to hard starting after periods of prolonged non-use. This can be done by anyone and does not require a visit to your local shop. Get a "high quality" outboard priming bulb from a marine store with 5/16" connectors; I look for products resistant to ethanol if possible and avoid those imported from China. The placement of the bulb requires that you get down and reach under the car once and a while to squeeze it and fill the carbs (you will feel the resistance increase as the bowls fill), but if it ever leaks you won't have an engine fire and the Concours judges won't see it. Attached are a couple of pictures of a priming bulb being installed in a 356C coupe and the PDF file is an article from our most recent 356CAR newsletter looking at some various solutions for cold starting problems.

Dormant Car Starting.pdf

Article on some possible solutions to cold starting problems.

(64.44 KiB) Downloaded 58 times

[Peter Tapper]

Peter
Modern fuel is so much more volatile than when these cars were new.
Assuming that everything is set up correctly (accelerator pump, jetting etc.) you will still have to turn over the engine to pump fuel into the carbrurator bowls, this is a given fact....
The best plan is to install a fuel pump under the passenger footboard, and use a under dashboard hidden switch. Switch on to start engine and off when the engine catches and runs. Make sure you have a pump that does not deliver too higher pressure or use a regulator after the pump output.
Although they are a distance from you, a trip tp PRS in Billericay is recomended if you are not happy with doing it yourself.
I do not recomend using a "Classic car gararge", if they have not worked on these little cars before they will make mistakes..........
KTF
John

Hi John
Thanks for that, I have heard of PRS, as you say it's a long way from Yorkshire Dales. I will look for a local Classic Car garage and see what they think.
Regards
Peter

[Peter Tapper]

I find that putting a priming bulb inline at the fuel line comes out of the body is a simple and effective solution to hard starting after periods of prolonged non-use. This can be done by anyone and does not require a visit to your local shop. Get a "high quality" outboard priming bulb from a marine store with 5/16" connectors; I look for products resistant to ethanol if possible and avoid those imported from China. The placement of the bulb requires that you get down and reach under the car once and a while to squeeze it and fill the carbs (you will feel the resistance increase as the bowls fill), but if it ever leaks you won't have an engine fire and the Concours judges won't see it. Attached are a couple of pictures of a priming bulb being installed in a 356C coupe and the PDF file is an article from our most recent 356CAR newsletter looking at some various solutions for cold starting problems.

IMG_0239.jpg

IMG_0240.jpg

Dormant Car Starting.pdf

Hi Bob
Thank you for that, I presume you just use the bulb as and when required following 3 or 4 days of not using the 356 ?
Regards
Peter

[Mike Ruddy]

Whereabouts are you in Gods own County Peter ? Have you discovered DDk ?

[Jeffrey Leeds]

Peter, Bob's putting the priming bulb up under the car is certainly an elegant solution. But if driving your car regularly is more paramount than concouring your car consider placing the bulb in the engine compartment tucked well back in the left rear corner. The advantage is two-fold: (1) it's more convenient: you don't have to crawl under the fender and reach up to find the primer; and, (2) it requires you to open the engine lid and gives you the opportunity to look everything over checking for leaks, and the oil level etc.

Either location works and has advantages and disadvantages. Tucked away there, since the primer and rubber gas line is black it is practically invisible to anyone looking in the engine compartment. I put a primer in my previous '65C and in 3 years of car shows not one judge spotted it or commented on it existence. And my back and knees thanked me every time I had to use it.

In either case follow Bob's advice on using only quality, ethanol resistant components. In fact if you don't know how old all your rubber lines are, then replacing them is a priority. We have cases (more than one) in our local club of gasoline leaking into the cabin from failure of the rubber line, that goes from the gas tank to the steel line that runs through the center of the car, leaking into the footwells!

Jeff

[Bob Cannon]

I need to use the priming bulb after weeks or months of non-use; usually sitting for 3-4 days is not a problem unless it's very hot. Your results may vary....

[Wil Mittelbach]

Peter -
Would also suggest you review the recent "auxiliary fuel pump switch" thread's postings, which include priming pump and switch installations for pre-start priming of dry carbs, such as my entry with pics showing my C cab's installation/location of the elec priming pump and switch.
- Wil

[Peter Tapper]

Whereabouts are you in Gods own County Peter ? Have you discovered DDk ?

Hi Mike, thank you for the message, we are in Ilkley ! I see you are only 30 mins away, great ! very welcome anytime of course.
not heard of DDK ? Do you use any particular garage for your 356 ?
Thx
Peter

[Peter Tapper]

Peter, Bob's putting the priming bulb up under the car is certainly an elegant solution. But if driving your car regularly is more paramount than concouring your car consider placing the bulb in the engine compartment tucked well back in the left rear corner. The advantage is two-fold: (1) it's more convenient: you don't have to crawl under the fender and reach up to find the primer; and, (2) it requires you to open the engine lid and gives you the opportunity to look everything over checking for leaks, and the oil level etc.

Either location works and has advantages and disadvantages. Tucked away there, since the primer and rubber gas line is black it is practically invisible to anyone looking in the engine compartment. I put a primer in my previous '65C and in 3 years of car shows not one judge spotted it or commented on it existence. And my back and knees thanked me every time I had to use it.

In either case follow Bob's advice on using only quality, ethanol resistant components. In fact if you don't know how old all your rubber lines are, then replacing them is a priority. We have cases (more than one) in our local club of gasoline leaking into the cabin from failure of the rubber line, that goes from the gas tank to the steel line that runs through the center of the car, leaking into the footwells!

Jeff

Many thanks Jeff, it sounds good advice to me.
Peter

[Edwin Ek]

Peter, tell us the story of how you found an original paint car.

[Mike Ruddy]

Peter,

I had my engine rebuilt recently but other than that I've managed to do any servicing and upkeep myself.

I have a two post lift if you ever feel the need to become better acquainted with the underside of your car.

As for DDk... this is DDk....

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/index.php

I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

[John Clarke]

Hi all
Rubber gas priming bulbs. Sounds great in theory, but in practice, with modern day fuels with their rubber perishing additives. It would seem like an accident waiting to happen!! I know a few of you have them, I wonder if the insurers would pay out after a fire? Not for me.
Cheers Jay

[Heidi Frances]

Hi Peter,

Congrats on the new car!

I struggled a bit with fuel issues in our car for the first few years we owned it. Turned out that the PO didn't grease the fuel pump at all after a rebuild and the bell-crank actuator (I'm sure there is a real name for it) that is driven by the cam and pulls the diaphragm down had cut completely through the diaphragm's slotted shaft! It would every once in a while catch and pump away, but it was very weak. A simple pump rebuild (I have an A car) fixed that issue.

So, I suppose, my point is maybe also take a good look at your pump and make sure it is happy and pumping all it can Also, look for an old fuel filter under the car as the line leave the tunnel. It may be a bit clogged and not flowing well. It should be a METAL can filter (plastic bad).

I'm more a fan of the long cranking... It feels weird, but I like the fact that the engine gets lots of oil circulated before a real load is applied. Starters and batteries are cheaper than engines, I think. I have a 6V Optima battery that is just fine after seven years. I do keep it on a tender. The starter is original and quite strong. I will be installing one of Joe Leoni's starter switch relays to reduce the current through the ignition switch.

Have fun with your new car! Ours gets driven more than any other car in the garage - including the DD!

Franny

[Peter Tapper]

Hi Peter,

Congrats on the new car!

I struggled a bit with fuel issues in our car for the first few years we owned it. Turned out that the PO didn't grease the fuel pump at all after a rebuild and the bell-crank actuator (I'm sure there is a real name for it) that is driven by the cam and pulls the diaphragm down had cut completely through the diaphragm's slotted shaft! It would every once in a while catch and pump away, but it was very weak. A simple pump rebuild (I have an A car) fixed that issue.

So, I suppose, my point is maybe also take a good look at your pump and make sure it is happy and pumping all it can Also, look for an old fuel filter under the car as the line leave the tunnel. It may be a bit clogged and not flowing well. It should be a METAL can filter (plastic bad).

I'm more a fan of the long cranking... It feels weird, but I like the fact that the engine gets lots of oil circulated before a real load is applied. Starters and batteries are cheaper than engines, I think. I have a 6V Optima battery that is just fine after seven years. I do keep it on a tender. The starter is original and quite strong. I will be installing one of Joe Leoni's starter switch relays to reduce the current through the ignition switch.

Have fun with your new car! Ours gets driven more than any other car in the garage - including the DD!

Franny

Hi Franny
Thank you for the information and am sure I have seen your YouTube videos on starting a 356 from cold !! Very interesting, I was the guy that told you that I have to pour a cap of fuel down the carb to get things working ! One warm it starts a treat.
Keep up the videos though.
Regards
Peter

[Dave Wildrick]

Hi all
Rubber gas priming bulbs. Sounds great in theory, but in practice, with modern day fuels with their rubber perishing additives. It would seem like an accident waiting to happen!! I know a few of you have them, I wonder if the insurers would pay out after a fire? Not for me.
Cheers Jay

As long as the rubber priming bulbs are made of the correct compound, they are no worse than the rubber fuel lines that enter the engine compartment and connect to the fuel pump inlet and outlet and the rubber tubing centered behind the fan shroud that connects the 2 metal carb fuel lines. By the way, Ron LaDow (of Precision Matters) used to sell a rubber priming device that was located centered behind the fan shroud (out of sight).
The key to using one of these bulbs is to fasten it toward the rear of the engine compartment and up and away from the hot metal parts. You also need to keep an eye on these because they do tend to harden up after a few years in use. I have been using them in both of my C coupes for more than 15 years now, with no issues.