Engine compartment sound deadening

[Mike Wilson]

I think that's so the sound deadening can curve.

[Jack Kwiat]

I think that's so the sound deadening can curve.

Exactly. I think the original type insulation pattern has three separate strips, one between the hinge braces, and one on each side of that.

I spoke to Bill Perrone the other day, and he said he doesn't do any of that anymore. Oh well, thought I'd give it a shot.

Well, it looks like I'll be forming my own kit. Once the engine's out, I can reach everything comfortably and make cardboard patterns. It doesn't look like rocket science.

[Mike Wilson]

I'll see if I can get the name of the roofing tar paper my friend used.

[Dave Erickson]

Jack, did Bill Perone give you an overview of how to install the sound deadening panels? I have a set of original replacement panels that are waiting to get installed in my 64 C. They are quite stiff and don't match the contours of the engine bay, so I expect that the process involves heat. I have a couple of large propane torches that might work, they are used for roll roofing. I also have one of those propane patio heaters, that might be a more even source of heat, or perhaps I could use a gas grill, but it would be great to hear how it was done by someone who knows.

Dave

[Jack Kwiat]

I'll see if I can get the name of the roofing tar paper my friend used.

Thank you, Mike,
That would be awesome. 8)

[Jack Kwiat]

Jack, did Bill Perone give you an overview of how to install the sound deadening panels? I have a set of original replacement panels that are waiting to get installed in my 64 C. They are quite stiff and don't match the contours of the engine bay, so I expect that the process involves heat. I have a couple of large propane torches that might work, they are used for roll roofing. I also have one of those propane patio heaters, that might be a more even source of heat, or perhaps I could use a gas grill, but it would be great to hear how it was done by someone who knows.

Dave

Thanks Dave,
Bill didn't share much information, if any. In fact, it sounded more like he couldn't be bothered. I had asked him if he had any patterns....the answer was NO.

I know it requires heat to be able to make the felt fit the contours. I have a piece of heavier roll roofing, and started cutting a few pieces out. As I was forming one of the side pieces, I used a heat gun to form the bends, and it works like a charm. So, a heatgun is the trick.

I'd be happy to share any information once it gets underway.

[Dave Erickson]

Thanks Dave,
Bill didn't share much information, if any. In fact, it sounded more like he couldn't be bothered. I had asked him if he had any patterns....the answer was NO.

I know it requires heat to be able to make the felt fit the contours. I have a piece of heavier roll roofing, and started cutting a few pieces out. As I was forming one of the side pieces, I used a heat gun to form the bends, and it works like a charm. So, a heatgun is the trick.

I'd be happy to share any information once it gets underway.

Jack, how does the thickness of the roll roofing compare to the original engine insulation? The original insulation had a layer of horsehair underneath, or some kind of fibrous mat.

[Greg Bryan]

Here's an older thread on the same subject with a number of suggestions.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30214&hilit=toyota+asphalt

[Jack Kwiat]

Thank you, Greg,
Another member just revised the thread with some input.

The Toyota asphalt sheeting looks very interesting. Thank you for including that in the original thread.

Thank you again for posting the link to the original thread.

[Jack Kwiat]

Jack, how does the thickness of the roll roofing compare to the original engine insulation? The original insulation had a layer of horsehair underneath, or some kind of fibrous mat.

Dave,
From what I can ascertain, the original tar felt is slightly thicker than the roll roofing stuff that I'm experimenting with. I only found a small piece of the original felt to compare. However, I don't know how accurate the thickness is, being that it had a layer of tar on it. I'm sure the tar is residue from what was used to adhere the felt sheeting to the body.

[Ben Wainscott]

For Dave Erickson.
Dave I installed Bill's insulation in 2008 and did a lessons learned write up. Here is a cut and paste of my post.
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I am completing a full up restoration on my 65 SC. Live in San Diego, so about 80 miles from Bill's shop. Picked up the full kit. Interior, fwd closing panels, gas tank, trunk, engine, under trans, etc. By the time you get done, you will be an expert, but it is a bitch, especially under the transaxle area. Having said that, it looks completely original, and I would not have wanted to use any other product. What I learned:

Use a large torch like a roofer would use to melt tar doing what we call a "torch down roof". It connects to a propane bottle from a BBQ and puts out an incredible amount of heat. Very quick compared to a small propane torch, and available in the US for about $20 (plus the propane bottle).

The pieces are very stiff when cold, but after heating they are like spaghetti. In the forward door closing area, they could not be used as one piece, and I had to cut in half. No worries, as you can line up the pieces, and with the tar melted the seam will disappear.

This is generally a two man operation. I put down metal on the garage floor, laid a couple of pieces of wood down to hold the soundproofing off the metal so you could grab it with thick rubber gloves on, and heated the tar till it bubbled. Early mistake was not getting it hot enough. Had a person to help me put it into place, and then worked it into the metal.

The floor with the deep pockets stamped into it really requires some work. I had some leather drafting paper weights (filled with lead shot) from some college class in the 70's, and used them to pound the soundproofing into place. Need to be careful, as you can tear it. But that is why it is important to have it hot enough to fit it. I also cut the floor pieces in half and fitted where the front and rear floor panels mate. Doing it in one piece would have been tough.

Under the transaxle, heated it on the metal sitting on a creeper. Rolled it under the car, and with one on each side we lifted, fitted, and pounded it into place.

Engine compartment not bad, and in fact might be a good place to start, as pieces are small, and easy to just lift in and fit. Did the gas tank last, just because I was refinishing the tank. Piece of cake.

Part that goes in the trunk gets glued in. Didn't think it looked anything like the original sitting on the floor. After installed and beat into all the curves, looks perfect.

Hope this helps.
Ben
65 SC S/R coupe 130924

_________________
Ben Wainscott
65 SC S/R coupe
89 911 Carrera
63 Vespa 150
80 Vespa P200e

[Dave Erickson]

Ben, thank you for your information! It is exactly the level of information I was looking for, and it confirms my original thought that a large torch was the way to go. I take it that no glue is required if the tar is heated enough.

One question: what about the coconut fiber mats that originally were under the tarpaper in the engine compartment? Did your car still retain those mats and was the tar paper applied to them, or did you strip all the insulation and apply the tar paper directly to the firewall in the engine compartment?

-Dave

[Ben Wainscott]

Dave, you are right that if it has tar on it, no glue is needed. After you do a couple of the small pieces you will get the feel for how much heat is needed, but I remember heating it up until it bubbled.

Regarding the firewall, the piece I got from Bill was about a 1/2 thick with fiber on the back and black material on the front. It gets glued in. When I installed mine, I got a slight wrinkle in it where your firewall bends, as it was pretty stiff. I would leave it out in the sun for a while so it is more flexible.

[Jack Kwiat]

Ben,
I appreciate your input and your experience applying the sound deadening. I guess a torch is the way to go. I'm guessing regular roofing felt does not have the same amount of impregnated tar in it.
Again, I'll have to experiment with it using the torch method.

[Bob Kittel]

I'd like to redo the sound deadening in my engine compartment sometime soon. It's looking pretty shabby, and some of it had been pulled off sometime ago.
Has anyone made their own using heavier felt paper, and what would you recommend to redo the firewall padding?
I know there's pre-made kits available, but if I can do my own for considerably less, I'm going that route. It's a driver and not a show car, so it doesn't have to be concours correct.

Thanks guys. I'd like to hear what you've used... I'm all ears.

Made my own some years ago and it worked out very well. Message me and I will tell you what I did.