New high torque gland nut with non spring washer O ring

[Bruce Utting]

I am just about to fit one of the new style gland nuts, and notice that the groove at the base of the threads, where on the old nuts, an O ring was fitted, does not now match the position of the groove between the crank and flywheel. i.e if you fit an O ring into the new nut's groove, it will squash up at the base of the washer and presumably make it impossible to torque this nut up correctly. The manuals show an O ring should be fitted on the gland nut although cannot see why one should be necessary as no oil should get into the gland nut area. And there is no doubt that the O ring groove on the new nuts is in a different position from the groove n the old wavy washer nuts.

Should I fit the new nut without the O ring?

[Ron LaDow]

What manual shows an O-ring on the flywheel nut? I've somehow missed it.

[David Jones]

Where did you buy this "new style gland nut"?

[Vic Skirmants]

Never heard of an O-ring on a gland nut.

[Bruce Utting]

Hmm...page 14 of the Brooklands Porsche 356 Owners Wokrshop manual has a cross sectional diagram of the flywheel assembly which appears to show an oil seal on the gland nut, but now that I look more closely, at the small diagram, I see that it is identifying a seal on the end of the pilot bush. I have just gone back and had a real close look at the factory 356 B manual which I also have and I cannot find the corresponding cross sectional diagram (there is one for the fan pulley end...) nor reference to an O ring.

If you are saying there normally isnt one fitted there..this is a relief as I cant see how to fit one on the new nut! ( It is a Stoddard nut bought from Pelican.)

Thanks fr comments...looks like I am barking up the wrong tree! Getting too old to read diagrams correctly.

Now for the real battle...tightening the bloody thing up to 400 ft lbs!

[David Jones]

Buy one of these.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... C-C10-7036
If you want to work on the engine and the back axles, but it does need a slight mod to work on a 356 rear axle.
By the way it would help sometimes to know where folks are when trying to offer help as geographic location can assist in locating those who can offer hands on assistance and direction to parts location.

[Dave Erickson]

Now for the real battle...tightening the bloody thing up to 400 ft lbs!

I'm not a fan of the torque multipliers, probably because I have a ¾" torque wrench and have done it that way for 50 years. I use a piece of steel bolted to two holes in the flywheel, about 3"x3/8"x36". It opposes the force of the torque wrench. It makes it real easy and there is never any doubt that the torque is correct. I also use it for rear axle nuts.

[Bruce Utting]

I have read as much as I can find on tightening these nuts properly...certainly I can bolt apiece of angle iron across the flywheel, and use a 4' extension on a bar to tighten it...but that doesnt guarantee 400 ft lbs is achieved. The manufacturers of the torque multipliers swear that they work and give reasonably accurate results, and I have access to one. I am a bit puzzled as to the apparent opposition to the use of these. I also don't read much on the use of Loctite...apart from some comments on its non-lubricating properties i.e. that it might not be slippery enough to facilitate achieving the full torque.. The very experienced engineer who ground my crank said he would use Loctite, but he is not a 356 specialist. And I am in New Zealand by the way.

[Ron LaDow]

certainly I can bolt apiece of angle iron across the flywheel, and use a 4' extension on a bar to tighten it...but that doesnt guarantee 400 ft lbs is achieved.

Pretty sure the 400#/ft is +/- enough that a 100k guy sitting near the end of a 2' bar (to mix metrics) will do just fine.
IIRC, the factory spec was closer to 360#/ft, so there is some tolerance.

[Dick Weiss]

There's no O-ring seal on (or in) the gland nut, but there is a felt dust seal in its end; Not sure about the special gland nut since I rarely use them.

Dick

[Dick Weiss]

Also, I don't use the needle bearing version (unless it's in good condition), but still use
the bronze insert--w/grease.

[David Jones]

Bruce, I have been using the torquemeister for 25 years and can only say that if you intend to remove/replace flywheel gland nuts and axle nuts often you need to buy one. I have used the huge 3/4" torque wrench (sold it) and the extension bar technique but hands down the torquemeister (aka torque dude) is the easiest most convenient way especially when you do not have an assistant.

[Dave Wildrick]

Buy one of these.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... C-C10-7036
If you want to work on the engine and the back axles, but it does need a slight mod to work on a 356 rear axle.
By the way it would help sometimes to know where folks are when trying to offer help as geographic location can assist in locating those who can offer hands on assistance and direction to parts location.

What David says is true, but with a couple caveats.
I don't know whether the cip1 model (a clone of the original California-made TorqueMeister) needs the holes enlarged, but I suspect it does and that this is the modification he speaks of, and others have remarked that a die grinder is necessary for this operation, owing to the extreme hardness of the casting.

According to the advertising, the Torque Dude that Al Zim sells works without modification of the hole size for the lug bolts that secure it to the gear plate provided, but only on brake drum 356 cars, not on disc brake models.

From Ab Tiedemann of this talk list (afterwerke.com), I bought a modified TorqueMeister gear plate for the rear axle on my C cars, which has holes (2 sets) of the proper size and location to attach to both drum brake and disc brake cars. This works well on the 356C.

However, I found that when trying to remove the gland nut with the TorqueMeister Ab supplied, the 36mm socket built into the casting does not engage enough of the nut to be secure in applying the large force required.
Others have reported solving this issue by machining some metal from this socket so that it slips further down onto the nut and works well. I did not attempt that.
So, I am still using a 3/4 inch drive breaker bar w/36mm socket (plus appropriate length cheater pipe) for the flywheel.

[David Jones]

Dave, I just took a 4 1/2" angle grinder and chamfered the edge of the 36mm drive. Took between 5 and 10 minutes because of moving it around to better positions for grinding.

[David Baugh]

I, too, have been using a torque meister tool for at least 25 yrs. Wouldn't even think of going back to the old ways. 40 - 45lb/ft on the 3/8 drive torque wrench is very easy to manage.

Dave